Excelsior

[AdminGuy]

Hello!

Does anyone out there know when Excelsior buit engine number 107841 ??

I would guess 1920, but does anyone know for sure ??

Knut, Norway

[AdminGuy]

I can now answer my own question

Year Engine number
1914 50000 ->
1915 63500 ->
1916 75000 ->
1917 88200 ->
1918 93375 ->
1919 97373 ->
1920 103500 ->
1921 107500 ->
1922 108000 ->
1923 108500 ->
1924 108800 ->

My engine number is 107841, and I therefor have an Excelsior produced in 1921.

[AdminGuy]

Excelsior Models:


Model 61 1914 #50000 - 63499
Model 61 1915 #63500 - 74999
Model 61 1916 #75000 - 88199
Model 61 1917 #88200 - 93374
Model 61 1918 #93375 - 97372
Model 61 1919 #97373 - 103499
Model 61 1920 #103500 - 107499
Model 61 1921 #107500 - 107999
Model 61 1922 #108000 - 108499
Model 61 1923 #108500 - 108799
Model 61 1924 #108800 and up
Super-X 45 1925 #1000 - 2999
Super-X 45 1926 #3000 - 4499
Super-X 45 1927 #4500 - 4999
Super-X 45 1928 #5000 - 6499
Super-X 45 1929 #6500 - 6999
Super-X 45 1930 #7000 - 7399
Super-X 45 1931 #7400 and up


Henderson Models:

Detroit Built Model A 1912
Detroit Built Model B 1913
Detroit Built Model C 1914
Detroit Built Model D & E 1915 #3372
Detroit Built Model F 1916 #5243
Detroit Built Model G 1917 #6500
Detroit Built Model H 1918 #H or Z
Detroit Built Model 1919 #2 H or 2 Z
Chicago Built Model K 1920 #K 1200 - 1899
Chicago Built Model K 1921 #K 1900 - up
Chicago Built Deluxe 1922 #D 1000 - 2999
Chicago Built Deluxe 1923 #D 3000 - 4999
Chicago Built Deluxe 1924 #D 5000 - 12999
Chicago Built Deluxe 1925 #D 13000 - 19999
Chicago Built Deluxe 1926 #D 20000 - 22999
Chicago Built Deluxe 1927 #D 23000 - 24999
Chicago Built Deluxe 1928 #D 25000 - 27999
Chicago Built Steamline 1929 #KJ or KL 28000 - 32999
Chicago Built Steamline 1930 #KJ or KL 33000 - 34999
Chicago Built Steamline 1931 #KJ or KL 35000 and up

Please complete this list if you have any info.

[scic]

Regarding your posting of Hen motor #s, in case you didn't know those #s were originally compiled by a Hen dealer and after market parts supplier named Ballock (Balock?) from St Louis. It needs to be pointed out as time passes, things like this get adopted as undisputable fact. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem that a specific X/Hen factory #s list has survived or turned up. When the AMA bought the Schwinn archives, I believe some very knowledgable X/Hen enthusiasts looked for such a list and could not find it. However, I do think the list you quote is fairly accurate at least after 1918 when Schwinn was fully in control of Hen production and particularly good for Deluxe and KJ/KL units. I do not believe the Detroit Hen #s to be fully accurate - note 1912,13 &14 are missing. Am interested if any other AMCA member can shed light on this with actual factory documentation (exclusive of Otis Spiker and the Henderson Restoral Society). I can't comment on the X numbers as I have not researched these machines to any meaningful extent.

ps: I am also fortunate to have a very nice original unrestored 1924 big X. The 20 series Xs seem to be few in numbers.

[Tommo]

Happy New Year All.
Whenever I encounter any data that assists in accurately dating motorcycles, I include it in a folder that contains dating data only.

My query is, which published Excelsior figures are correct or put another way, the most accurate?

The "Antique Motorcycle Magazine" Fall 1995 issue published figures for 1907 to 1914 Excelsiors with 1914 being engine #s
48978 to 55909 but the data published in this post has the 1914 production starting at 50000 and going to 63499. Quite dramatically different numbers don't you think?

Can anyone narrow down the production numbers, especially 1914, as the point that "scic" makes about a perpetuated myth is an extremely important fact and it is also important that people answering questions like this through the club magazine and this forum state to the viewers as to whether the information is proven facts or not.

Regards Tommo
I don't want to put the dampener on this site as I think it is excellent and it enables us on the other side of the world easy access to our fellow club members but I do feel every effort should be made to ensure we impart accurate and correct information.

[AdminGuy]

Yes, mis-information becomes fact over time. It's a huge revelation when you discover a bit of this, and want to share it with others.

I think professional researchers include foot notes with sources of information. Pls correct me if I'm wrong, as to how they do it.

I agree, it would be really nice if people would include foot notes, with sources to verify.

Interesting how history sometimes gets rewritten.

The tricky thing about our hobby is that a vast number of documents have been tossed or destroyed over the years. I feel doing the research is a big part of the FUN of the hobby. Hopefully this Forum will help members do some of this research/fact finding a little bit faster as a group.

Side note: digital scanners are good. Silver gelitin photos fade (at 80-100yrs approx.), acid eats paper. If ya got it. Please scan it. ie. original factory photos/literature/blue prints/specs, etc.

[AdminGuy]

Hi again, and happy new year.

My Excelsior/Henderson list is also published in the AMCA magazine. I don't know the year, or number but it is supplied by Bob McClean. The article is about Henderson Bill (called Introducing Henderson Bill) and on page 18 the Henderson and Excelsior lists are published. Before the lists it says:

"Here's a little information for you Excelsior/Henderson fans. Bob McClean supplied this model and serial number list. Hurry.....Check your machine before the judges show up!"

I am only interrested in a list that is correct, and if anyone owns a 1914 Excelsior it would be great if they could reveal the engine number of their bike. I have owned a 1917 Excelsior with the engine number 92110, and that is a perfect match with the list. I also have other friends stating that this list is correct compared to their engines. My only problem now is that I don't know what year my current Excelsior (107841) is produced. Untill I am proven wrong I will stick to the list and the year 1921.

This forum should be perfect for joining all the Excelsior owners in the world and try to make a accurate list.

Thanks again for having this forum, and I am looking forward to a lot of replys.

[Tommo]

Sorry Knut but I thought you must have had the 1907-1914 Excelsior production numbers that were published in the Fall 1995 issue of the magazine.

They are;
1907 000 - 289
1908 290 - 835
1909 836 - 3727
1910 3728 - 9246
1911 9247 - 15319
1912 15320- 18063
1913 18064- 48977
1914 48978- 55909

I don't know who supplied the above facts but I got them from a borrowed club magazine a few years ago.

Using the above numbers gives the following production units so long as every available number was used.

1907 289
1908 546
1909 2892
1910 5519
1911 6073
1912 2744
1913 30914
1914 6932

And then by using the figures you posted;

1914 13500
1915 11500
1916 13200
1917 5175
1918 3998
1919 6127
1920 4000
1921 500
1922 500
1923 300

Juggling between the two different start numbers for 1914 can give other production figures for the 1914 /15 years.

The higher production numbers for the 1914-15-16 years I suppose can be put down to the First World War effort but almost 31000 in 1913.
Where did all the 1913 models go to, as by the law of averages they should be the most common surviving Excelsior.

Back in the Winter 1980 issue of the club magazine a
Mr Cliff Pease
4164 Ewell Road
Virginia Beach
Va 23455
was soliciting information for a Excelsior / Henderson Register.
What has become of all the research notes he must have made?
Was the Register ever circulated?

Enough of my ramblings but as presented at present I feel the figures don't stack-up quite right with production numbers swinging up and down a bit too much.

Those in the know please help?

Yours in Motorcycling
Tommo

[AdminGuy]

A new found Excelsior friend tells me:

"Note that the serial numbers for singles and twins were not consecutive, I would assume the factory used "blocks of numbers" for the singles and twins back then."

This would make a difference when it comes to #'s. 1913 was the first year with 61ci (1000cc) only. Jerry Hatfield writes this in the book Antique American Motorcycle Buyer's Guide (on page 12). The V-twin was intorduced in 1910, and Excelsior had a two -model range in 1910, 1911 and 1912. The 1910 v-twin was 50ci (819cc). The v-twin from 1911 until 1921 was 61ci. From 1921 Excelsior also delivered an aditional 74ci v-twin.

How could I tell the difference without opening the cylinders and masure them?? On my 1928 HD JD I can count the ribs on the sylinder to tell.

[AdminGuy]

Hi again!

My 1921?? has 15 ribs on the cylinder itself, and 8 on the exhaust camber.