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Thread: VLD Trans blueprint available? What did I do wrong?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Roswell, GA
    Posts
    58

    Default VLD Trans blueprint available? What did I do wrong?

    Assembling the 36 VLD - with the engine and trans bolted up in the frame and the inner chain guard installed, I offered up the clutch sprocket to the main shaft and recognized it was lightly rubbing the inner chain guard. After pondering that, also checked alignment of the front sprocket to the clutch sprocket. The clutch sprocket is inset by 0.080" thus the primary chain would be misaligned.

    Clearly, something is wrong in the trans, where the input shaft is recessed by 0.080." I assembled this trans from a bucket of parts. After careful study of Steve's book and a few photos found on-line, I can't determine what I've done wrong. After initial assembly it turned over easily by hand and shifted well, with no looseness, binding, etc. It appeared to be quite alright. The trans is now disassembled again and the mainshaft parts are laid out for you to see. The bearings on both ends are sealed units from Replicant Metals. The shim on the left that goes into the case before the big bearing is 0.069" Is this not supposed to be there, causing the recess of the mainshaft and clutch sprocket? Is there supposed to be a shim next to the small bearing, that would kick the mainshaft assembly towards the clutch sprocket?
    IMG_0742.jpg

    The mainshaft extends out of the large gear collar to accept the shim and clutch bearing 0.960" to the edge of the keyway. Don't be fooled by the angle of the photo, that measurement is correct.
    IMG_0743.jpg

    With the thrust washer and bearing mounted up, the keyway is exposed just enough to except the key and clutch pack.
    IMG_0744.jpg

    I'm sure someone will look at this and chuckle, instantly recognizing my mistake. If that's you, please enlighten me!

    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by NCriding; 11-10-2019 at 10:02 PM.
    1936 VLD in process
    1969 Honda Z50 K1 perfect!
    1985 Yamaha RZ350 resto-mod
    2006 KTM 950 Adventure
    2019 KTM 300 XCW

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    182

    Default

    "Is there supposed to be a shim next to the small bearing, that would kick the mainshaft assembly towards the clutch sprocket?" Steve has mentioned a ~50 thou thick hardened washer in this location.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,325

    Default

    I don't see anything obvious and don't know of any front/rear sprocket alignment spec from Harley. 80 thou is 2 mm so maybe the primary chain can take this much misalignment, perhaps other forum members can tell us. In terms of ideas, here are a few. Early repro mainshafts had wrong tapers at both ends, and this will throw off the dimensions. You can see the original ball bearing has a definite offset, so check this against your sealed bearing. The 2288-17 bearing plate has to be left in position at the drive end. Don't forget you have the sprocket, one-year 1936 dust cover and lock washer still to install. The 2500-19 thrust washer came in 0.09-0.12" thicknesses originally, affecting the chain alignment.

  4. #4

    Default

    W/r/t/ "the primary chain can take this much misalignment"
    I can't diagnose your problem, but .080" is 5 X too much (I'd settle for 1/64" if I had to), something is wrong

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Reno NV
    Posts
    207

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    NC Rider,
    In your first photo, it looks like the high gear is not pushed onto the main shaft enough.
    There looks to be a step on the mainshaft that should meet up with a face inside the high gear.
    It has been a while since I have looked at one of these setups, but it is something to check.

    Does the sliding gear fully engage the high gear dogs?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    99

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    The spacer and large bearing go into the case. The main drive gear goes into the bearing up to it’s shoulder and stops. The main shaft goes into the main drive gear up to it’s shoulder and stops. No shimming will move any of these parts further to the left. If the main shaft does not protrude far enough outside the case the parts are not up against their respective shoulders or you have the wrong parts. I have run into these aftermarket main shafts that Steve mentioned. They have incorrect tapers and are bad news.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Roswell, GA
    Posts
    58

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    Thanks everyone for your input, had to leave town on business for the week, I’ll check out your comments this weekend when I return home.
    1936 VLD in process
    1969 Honda Z50 K1 perfect!
    1985 Yamaha RZ350 resto-mod
    2006 KTM 950 Adventure
    2019 KTM 300 XCW

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Roswell, GA
    Posts
    58

    Default

    OK, lets re-start from the top! I partially reassembled the trans to double check the sprocket alignment. No change, clutch basket is inward about 0.080"
    IMG_0751.jpgIMG_0752.jpg

    Remeasured the main-shaft and main gear, all the same. The 0.100 shim, clutch bearing and basket fit just fine - except to far in.
    IMG_0753.jpgIMG_0754.jpg

    Steve - you mentioned the main bearing is offset, my repro sealed bearing has no offset and is 0.709" thick. Shim 2288-17, which goes in before the bearing is 0.064." If that shim was not there, it would kick the bearing and gear 0.064 out, which would leave things only 0.012" out of align. I might live with that. What purpose does that shim have, other than allowing me to coax the bearing back out without doing damage to it? You'd also mentioned the 1936 one year only dust cover to be installed between the sprocket and lock washer. Looking at your 2013 fifth edition book, page 13-3, showing 7 transmissions, the 1936 3 speed has no dust cover installed, and I don't have one with mine. Do I really need it?

    Aumick10 - yes everything engages properly and the mainshaft is fully inserted into the output shaft/gear. As Dusty Dog stated, that would not cause the issue, though.

    Dusty Dog - your comments on mainshaft alignment and shimming are noted and understood, thank you. My mainshaft is in borderline condition, might buy a repro from "The good old motorcycle parts company," do you know anything about theirs?
    IMG_0755.jpg
    Last edited by NCriding; 11-17-2019 at 05:56 PM.
    1936 VLD in process
    1969 Honda Z50 K1 perfect!
    1985 Yamaha RZ350 resto-mod
    2006 KTM 950 Adventure
    2019 KTM 300 XCW

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,325

    Default

    The 2288-17 is a hardened thrust washer that presumably stops the main drive bearing scuffing against the aluminium case. It needs to be there. The countershaft sprocket fits with the dished side towards the gearbox. What's the item between the two rows of teeth on your engine drive sprocket? Have you got the oiler bushing installed under it? The 1936 dust cover discourages dust and water from entering the primary cover. When I ran out of originals I pounded the 1938 style down to about half its thickness after installation. Don't forget the 2341-16 oil ring outside, which I don't see in the pictures. And I guess Eastern Parts makes the mainshafts sold by all distributors. They are made down to a price and I had to make a couple of batches because the early ones were so poor. Stick with original if yours is still OK.
    Last edited by Steve Slocombe; 11-19-2019 at 04:43 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Coast Florida
    Posts
    185

    Default

    It's possible your motor sprocket shaft is the culprit. Is it a aftermarket replacement? If the taper is ground incorrectly that would move the motor sprocket outwards creating the problem? I've seen this problem before.

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