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Thread: Wet sumping on KHK

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Illinois
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    242

    Default Wet sumping on KHK

    If there is a thread on this subject, please help me find it. I want a better way to prevent wet sumping than clamping the return hose on my '56 KHK. I know I have seen a discussion on this somewhere, but I cannot find it.

    Do I have to install a new oil pump?
    George Tinkham
    Springfield, IL
    www.virmc.com

    1941 Indian 841
    1948 Indian Chief
    1956 H-D KHK
    1960 CH
    1964 BMW R69S
    1966 Honda Touring Benly (aka "150 Dream")
    1984 Moto Guzzi V65Sp

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Central Illinois, USA
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    3,302

    Default

    George!

    We need to define terms:

    Filling the cases while sitting is most common with H-Ds, and we might call that "static" sumping.

    "Wet sumping" brings up the common Indian issue of filling the cases while running, or perhaps "dynamic" sumping.

    'Static" should mean it is an leakage past a ball-check issue, whereas "dynamic" or "wet sumping" can mean the motor is not evacuating the excess oil while in duty.

    I am not that familiar with K or even Sportster pumps, as it has been decades, but if you read anything associated with me about "burnishing", I have disavowed it, even when it works.

    ....Cotten
    Last edited by T. Cotten; 10-11-2017 at 07:07 PM.
    AMCA #776
    Dumpster Diver's Motto: Seek,... and Ye Shall Find!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Upper Yarra Valley, Victoria. Australia
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    829

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolbreeze View Post
    If there is a thread on this subject, please help me find it. I want a better way to prevent wet sumping than clamping the return hose on my '56 KHK. I know I have seen a discussion on this somewhere, but I cannot find it.

    Do I have to install a new oil pump?

    Tom.
    This phrase in George's query defines the style:
    I want a better way to prevent wet sumping than clamping the return hose on my '56 KHK.


    George.
    The check valve is letting oil past for some reason.
    Remove the pump and have a good close look at the check valve area.
    Things to look for: Acid etching, sealant material attaching to the faces, lint or metal particles holding check valve open are common causes.
    Tom will poohoo the following suggestion but I have had excellent results: If the seat is etched with a line across the sealing face, make a tool and start with fine paste to check the witness mark. If it needs more determined work, step up to the next grade of paste, and then finish off with fine.

    P7160001.jpg

    Stand by for Toms retort.


    Regards Steve
    Steve Little
    Upper Yarra Valley. Victoria.
    Australia.
    AMCA member 1950

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Central Illinois, USA
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    Default

    Once again, Folks,..

    Seepage past a ball check while not running is static sumping, while "wet" sumping has traditionally referred to filling the cases while running (usually an Indian complaint).

    And the reason I dismiss lapping, beating with a punch, or even burnishing of a ballcheck was previously discussed here:
    http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/bbo...ght=burnishing

    Bubbles don't lie.

    ....Cotten
    Last edited by T. Cotten; 10-12-2017 at 09:25 AM.
    AMCA #776
    Dumpster Diver's Motto: Seek,... and Ye Shall Find!

  5. #5

    Default

    I had the same issue with my WL and I ended up putting a tap in the line. A 45" guy told me you'll never solve the problem and because I know better I tried "springs, balls, special rubber balls, lapping, burnishing, new pump, NOS pump" and still the same problem. He told me that the problem was in the cam cover but I know best. Obviously not a K model but a story I like to tell

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
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    Central Illinois, USA
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    Dave!

    If a new pump didn't fix your WL, I would suspect leakage past the pump drive bushing in the cam cover.

    ....Cotten
    Last edited by T. Cotten; 10-13-2017 at 09:13 AM.
    AMCA #776
    Dumpster Diver's Motto: Seek,... and Ye Shall Find!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Winfield,Ks.
    Posts
    5

    Default

    George,Here's a contact that would be good to talk to about oil seeping into the crankcase.His name is Tom LaFleur and can be reached at oldschool1946@Yahoo.com.He has a process for reworking these old oil pumps where the check valve seat is re machined and on Sportster pumps an additional oil seal is added in the breather tower.I am not exactly sure about K bike pump mods as I have a Sportster and the mods done work great.I do know in a conversation with Tom he was modding side valve /flat head pumps and was excited about the results.I can't promise it will be what you need,but I do believe it would be worth a discussion towards solving your problem.Peter

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T. Cotten View Post
    Dave!

    If a new pump didn't fix your WL, I would suspect leakage past the pump drive bushing in the cam cover.

    ....Cotten
    Spot on Tom, that's what I was told before I wasted many dollars trying to find a fix

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