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Thread: Bullneck frame machining

  1. #41
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    Nov 2008
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    Virginia
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    Steve,
    I have a question for you. Now that you have cleaned out all these castings/forgings and in doing so eliminated the splines that were in them originally is there any danger that the casting/ forgings are too thin and do you need to re-spline then to get a good connection between the new tubing to be installed and the casting/forging. I was told the splines helped secure the connection as some very small portion would get into the splines and help hold it. I know you are an expert at this and would assume that whatever you do is okay but just curious. Some engineer along the way must have felt the splined connections were needed unless it was an over engineering design.
    Thanks

    Tom (Rollo) Hardy
    AMCA #12766

  2. #42
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    Apr 2008
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    Upper Yarra Valley, Victoria. Australia
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    Hi Tom. Thanks for your interest.
    The straight knurl is machined onto the tube, not into the hole. The witness mark you can see inside the holes is from the knurl on the tube. Each tube has a few thou clearance when the frame is put together. When the parts are heated up for brazing the brass is drawn along the space between each knurl. The external part (the forging) is open to air and cools down faster than the tubing within. Standard principle of a metal hole cooling down is contraction. i.e. the socket shrinks onto the internal tube. Hence the witness mark inside the socket.
    The same principle happens to an electrically welded socket...but the shrinkage rate isn't as dramatic.
    So a short answer would be; The locking action of the knurl does not happen until the weld cools down.
    A side note. We used a knurling tool in the lathe but I don't know that Harley did. The following is an educated guess... The knurling on HD tubes is so precise That my thought is that HD might have used some kind of two or three piece press tool that clamped onto the tube and pressed the knurling mark.
    When we used to mill drill the frame components (before the cnc came along) we generally used 6 flute end mills, because they offer more stability during drilling holes and give a tighter tolerance on the hole.
    When the tubes where knurled, we controlled the height (stand up) of the knurl by the pressure applied by the tool in the lathe.
    If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask
    Steve Little
    Upper Yarra Valley. Victoria.
    Australia.
    AMCA member 1950

  3. #43

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    I've always thought that the purpose of the knurl was to ensure that the brazing flowed the entire length of the joint.

  4. #44
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    Nov 2008
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    Virginia
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    Steve,

    Thanks for clearing that process up. I know you know what you are doing but some of us try and speculate and we usually get it totally wrong. You built a frame for a 41 knuckle with side car I needed a few years ago but when we talked you recommended doing the thicker pan head tubing and I'm glad we did it that way. Just wish you were still at it but understand why you aren't. Think I might give Clack a try as I see some others have with good results as I have another 41 frame that is a mess and basically needs to be disassembled and the above process on the casting/forgings and new tubing installed. Again thanks for your input and guidance and craftsmanship and hope it catches on.

    Tom (Rollo) Hardy
    AMCA #12766

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Upper Yarra Valley, Victoria. Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by larry View Post
    I've always thought that the purpose of the knurl was to ensure that the brazing flowed the entire length of the joint.
    G,Morn'in Larry.
    In my mind, I thought I had described that, but my answer lost some of its emphasis due to tired ramblings. I got sidetracked with why the knurl eventually locks onto the steel. I shouldn't compose and post answers at 12 30 am.
    Why were you awake at 12, 30am you may ask? My daughter is doing year 12 and coming up to exams. I was helping her with stuff and eventually tripped off to bed at 12. My mistake was turning my iPad to try and wind down.
    Steve Little
    Upper Yarra Valley. Victoria.
    Australia.
    AMCA member 1950

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Upper Yarra Valley, Victoria. Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    Steve,

    Thanks for clearing that process up. I know you know what you are doing but some of us try and speculate and we usually get it totally wrong. You built a frame for a 41 knuckle with side car I needed a few years ago but when we talked you recommended doing the thicker pan head tubing and I'm glad we did it that way. Just wish you were still at it but understand why you aren't. Think I might give Clack a try as I see some others have with good results as I have another 41 frame that is a mess and basically needs to be disassembled and the above process on the casting/forgings and new tubing installed. Again thanks for your input and guidance and craftsmanship and hope it catches on.

    Tom (Rollo) Hardy
    AMCA #12766
    Hi Tom.
    Some of my thoughts and recollections during my time with Ross River virus and then Fibromyalgia are foggy and in some cases non existent .
    But I do remember your thicker wall frame. Glad I had enough brain power to recommend that idea.
    Regards Steve
    Steve Little
    Upper Yarra Valley. Victoria.
    Australia.
    AMCA member 1950

  7. #47
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    Nov 2008
    Location
    Virginia
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    Well you and Lady Ga Ga have something in common with the fibromyalgia! My sister and family lived in Aussie for 4 year in Alice but they managed to avoid any major diseases or critter bites. Only the occasional flood of the Campbell River and washing a few drunks down stream. She loved it there and wants to move back. She did have one kids Named Conor MacDonald after the mountain range.

    Tom *Rollo) Hardy
    AMCA #12766

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Upper Yarra Valley, Victoria. Australia
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    Hi Rollo.
    Alice is a nice town to visit but I wouldn't live there.
    I have heard of lady gaga and know that shes a singer, but didn't know anything else so I had a look on Google.
    Well!!! She's and individual little poppet.
    I feel for her if she is trying to do that job and cope with Fibro.

    Initially I contracted Ross River virus from a mozzie, and apparently it morphed into Fibromyalgia.
    The confounded thing stuck around for 13 years until I kicked it out of bed this year.
    I completed stem cell treatment on my knee earlier this year and the surgeon used me as one of the guinea pigs for treating Fibro with regenerative stems at the same time. It worked so well, I feel down right frisky.
    Steve Little
    Upper Yarra Valley. Victoria.
    Australia.
    AMCA member 1950

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Little View Post
    Thanks. I appreciate it, but feel a bit uncomfortable with the term.
    More importantly..what are you still doing awake?
    how about a heck of a good machinist then.
    boy, being up is what I ask myself lol
    I am off work waiting on surgery and am used to starting my shift at midnight. it doesn't matter what time I turn the light off i'm back awake by 1am.

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