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Thread: 'Custom' Tool question: Measuring Manifold nut inside angles?

  1. #11
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    Jun 2001
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    Golly BoschZEV!

    Just holding a straightedge against the narrow bevel is quite a trick, and squaring it up with my protractor doesn't reproduce.
    And locking the nut down on the mill way robbed me of feel altogether.

    So I would have to be schooled as to how to stack and apply the plates, unless they are magnetic!
    This is one more reason to ask some local mentors, especially if they might have some plates..

    At this point I would be happy with readings reproduceable to the degree, although I suspect a half a degree can make a difference in the compression zone on the seal.

    ....Cotten
    AMCA #776
    Dumpster Diver's Motto: Seek,... and Ye Shall Find!

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. Cotten View Post
    So I would have to be schooled as to stack and apply the plates, unless they are magnetic!
    At this point I would be happy with readings reproduceable to the degree, although I suspect a half a degree can make a difference in the compression zone on the seal.
    To test this I went out to the garage and, after looking for something to test it on, decided on the L00 taper on a lathe chuck. I have my mill leveled, and the door jam should be pretty close to plumb, so I held the plates against the taper with my finger and sighted between the edge and that of the jamb. Eight degrees was too little and 9-deg. (i.e. a 4-deg. and a 5-deg. plate held against each other and against the taper by a finger) looked perfect. I then looked up what the taper really is and found it to be 8-deg 17' 50" (i.e. ~8-1/3 deg).

    Since it is easy to see the difference of 1-deg. this way, and since the door jamb easily could be off by 2/3-deg., my conclusion is this technique is good to an absolute accuracy of at least 1 deg. Maybe it's good to 1/2-deg. but I'd hesitate to claim that unless I tried it with a rod in the background adjusted to be perfectly vertical.

    As the (modified) saying goes: fast, cheap, accurate -- pick any two. This one gives you fast and cheap. Although, 1-deg. accuracy isn't all that bad (unless your application requires better than that).
    Last edited by BoschZEV; 07-27-2017 at 05:00 PM.

  3. #13
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    I found this site that sells neodymium magnets, and I was thinking; if you could find one narrow enough to fit in the nut, and stick to the angle, you could then stick the base of that magnet to a piece of ground steel to establish your sine. You could then use basic trig, or angle plates, or a protractor to find the angle. As I said, Tom, I've had this problem as well so I am hoping you, or someone else comes up with an elegant solution.

    https://www.duramag.com/neodymium-ma...IaAncXEALw_wcB
    Eric Smith
    AMCA #886

  4. #14
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    Well Folks,..

    First, I trial-and-error cut some stock until a rubbing showed great contact.
    Then I took BigLakeBob's advice, and set up a direct indicator, and adjusted the compound to follow the bevel with the toolpost.

    Zero math is a good thing.

    Both seem quite accurate, but they do not agree. Not even close.

    ....Cotten
    PS: So I take a bunch of time and measure out three Large Port nuts: The OEM, and two popular reproductions, one park'd and one cad.
    The disparity among them wouldn't bother me so much if the measurements didn't reproduce. Looks like a spread of eight degrees.

    Hope to average more OEMs before I have to set up for other things..
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by T. Cotten; 07-27-2017 at 08:32 PM.
    AMCA #776
    Dumpster Diver's Motto: Seek,... and Ye Shall Find!

  5. #15
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    Ignorance is bliss, Folks.

    Now I know things I wish I didn't.

    Using BigLakeBob's method, apparently accurate to the half o' degree on my Logan, I busted Liberty's R&D time budget logging the bevels found in H-D models in my stash and inventory.
    And regretfully, it appears I shall be measuring all that come in. A couple of degrees variation of the OEM examples is perplexing enough, since I have to cut seals with no room for failure, but the eight degree spread for the reproductions is disturbing.

    Indian models will be another forensic time-sucker,
    Thanks to all...

    ....Cotten
    AMCA #776
    Dumpster Diver's Motto: Seek,... and Ye Shall Find!

  6. #16
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    Just a thought, hot glue from your wife's hot glue gun then unscrew it and measure?
    I use it for all kinds of quick molds to measure and fixture fragile parts for machining.
    B
    Bob Williams

    AMCA 10493

  7. #17
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    Bob!

    Most nuts have a relief inside of the threaded portion, so anything cast-in would be locked from un-screwing. That led to my comment about breaking out sealing wax.

    BigLakeBob's suggestion solved the problem most eloquently, although opening up many other questions.

    Like: How have seventeen years of my own seal productions succeeded inspite of reproduction nuts!

    .....Cotten
    PS: I've got all of the glue guns, stored away. She doesn't use them either.
    PPS: My seals were cheaper in 2000. Now they must go up again.
    Last edited by T. Cotten; 07-28-2017 at 04:56 PM.
    AMCA #776
    Dumpster Diver's Motto: Seek,... and Ye Shall Find!

  8. #18
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    You don't have to fill entire area just a section hold nut at 45* give a couple squirts let harden then peel out.
    I'm sure 1000 ways to skin it as long as it works.
    Glad you got it!
    B
    Bob Williams

    AMCA 10493

  9. #19
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    Its a matter of tactile control measuring what's left, Bob!

    Eyeballing a sliver of anything with a protractor isn't accurate enough.
    (Needle points are a treat.)

    With the nut chucked up and an indicator on the toolpost, the lathe does the rest. Don't even have to turn it on.
    The operator is pretty slow though.

    ....Cotten
    Last edited by T. Cotten; 07-28-2017 at 05:10 PM.
    AMCA #776
    Dumpster Diver's Motto: Seek,... and Ye Shall Find!

  10. #20
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    Feb 2010
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    If it's that critical send it to me and I'll put it on the CMM and send you a digital drawing of it. B
    Bob Williams

    AMCA 10493

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