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Thread: 21 J Kickstart lever finish

  1. #31
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    1 mile east of the Rocky Mountains.
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    here's more pics opf a 26 i found in internet public domain, there used to be a video of this bike being started and ridden, a fellow by the name of Dave in California posted these pictures on the internet a couple years back.

    26caljd.1.JPG26caljd.3.jpg26caljd.2.jpg26caljd.jpg26caljd.6.jpg

  2. #32
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    more pics of cal bike
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #33
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    Sep 2001
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    Palmerston North, New Zealand
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    John
    I was only using the painted/plated judging thing as an example in an effort to try and get a definitive answer, possibly from one of the AMCA judges if they are looking at this thread.
    My opinion is that they were painted olive drab in 1920 and 1921 but it would be nice for someone to come up with some concrete proof.
    Maybe someone with copies of 1920 and 21 Enthusiast magazines could have a look for period photos that would answer the question.
    Peter Thomson, a.k.a. Tommo
    A.M.C.A. # 2777
    Palmerston North, New Zealand.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
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    Blighty
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    Default Re: 21 J Kickstart lever finish

    Dan, dull nickel plate is the term to unpolished nickel plate. The metal prep is the same for dull or bright.

    That said, originally nickel plate was done in what was called a "Watts Bath" solution which meant that the plating came out dull that could be polished to a shine. Later developments in plating science meant that the electrolyte had additives put into it that meant that the nickel plate came out shiny.

    I have been told that dull nickel is more malleable than bright nickel so is best suited for things like copper oil or petrol pipes where a bright plating finish might flake off if the pipes need to be bent a bit after plating. I am no expert but to me that means that modern bright plating might be different to dull nickel.

    Tommo, I agree that if someone has a machine in a Concours d'elegance and the judge knocks points off on a debatable item then you would feel hard done by. I also know that in the early days of motorcycling and cars a customer of a vehicle from new could request variations from stock so who is to say what is "correct" or not.

    I have a bit of a conflict with all of this. I love to understand the differences between models year by year and understand how they changed including such minutia as what finish should be on the kick start.

    On the other hand I am the last person who would enter a Concours d'elegance because I would have an argument with every judge over what is right or wrong.

    To me an "original" bike would be one that had been used regularly for decades and during that time had been repaired, modified or updated over that period and so could differ significantly from "stock".

    John

  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    NH
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    I do have so many pix, and really appreciate these pix you guys posted. Its funny how after all the time spent scouring them, I still missed a few things. I really appreciate the effort you folks have put into the study and restoration of the JD- so many changes, so many models!! Here's an engine shot of how mine came out

    Thanks again!jd rt side engine.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Dan Margolien
    Yankee Chapter National Meet August 3/4 2018 NEW LOCATION at the TERRYVILLE FAIRGROUNDS, Terryville CT http://www.bing.com/local?lid=YN873x...ir&FORM=SNAPST
    Yankeechapter.org
    pocketvalve@gmail.com
    JD enthusiasts: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/harleyjd/

  6. #36
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    Apr 2015
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    Waikanae, New Zealand
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    I agree with Peter that, on the basis of all the info that this thread generated, the kickers on 20 and 21 models were painted olive, at least in some cases over a parkerized base.

    I'm adding my thanks to Dan's to all who have taken the trouble to contribute. It's certainly added to my store of knowledge (and might help those involved in judging as well).

    Photos of original paint 21 models still sought!

    Mike

  7. #37
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    Dec 2015
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    Blighty
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechNoir View Post
    Tommo, you reminded me that I have an original 1920 Dealer Brochure. Its a UK brochure but I doubt that the kicker finish differed.

    On page 10 there is similar picture to your 1919 picture.

    Whilst looking for something else earlier today I looked at this picture again and noticed that the exhaust silencer is not the 1920 silencer but an earlier one. The brochure is a genuine 1920 brochure so I believe that this confirms my theory that H-D used the same illustrations for numerous years despite changes to specification

    It also confirms that illustrations cannot be relied upon as accurate sources for what is the correct specification for a particular model year.

    John

  8. #38
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    Sep 2007
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    Jersey City
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    Like I said earlier John. To save time the artists would just draw right over the old one. Not to be trusted. You got one hell of an eye kid! Bob L

  9. #39
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    Apr 2015
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    Waikanae, New Zealand
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    You're right John.

    It looks to me too that the spring forks are also the earlier pattern with the shorter top springs. 1920 was, I believe, the first year of the longer top springs and therefore longer overall spring tubes, which stood noticeably higher above the handlebars than on earlier models.

    I'm no expert but I understand (from Jerry Hatfield's "Inside Harley Davidson" among other sources) that brochures were prepared early in the year prior to the model year. So brochures and handbooks for the 1920 models would be in preparation in early-mid 1919, and use photographs of 1919 machines modified with available 1920 modifications and parts. Late changes in specification or non availability of new parts from the factory or contractors, or even minor detail changes which the factory didn't consider important enough to promote publicly, may not have made it to the brochure illustrations. Another trap for the unwary restorer 100 years later!

    Mike

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