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Thread: 1938 Hollywood green

  1. #11

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    While this is an old posting... I will comment. There are TWO Hollywood Green's, 1938 and 1955. The HD paint cans do not say which is what. HOWEVER< here is the real 1938 Hollywood Green color on this special order 1940 http://www.flickr.com/photos/3415079...7639914401586/
    and before some of you start commenting it is on a 1940, I have the documents, namely Harley Davidson to the dealer invoices that show this was done, and commonly done.

  2. #12
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    Show us the dealer invoice that shows this motorcycle leaving the factory that color. Otherwise it is just hear say.
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  3. #13

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    as an ex Harley Dealer, you should be as aware as anyone that HD dealer's do not and did not give their Harley Invoices to the retail customer. Thus, with the few exceptions where an HD dealer actually kept a machine and "magically" the original invoice has not been lost or tossed in the trash, extremely few machines have ever been found with their original Factory Invoice. In fact, today, just having a treasure trove of 352 invoices from Harley Davidson Motor Co. to the dealer, many of them Knucklehead invoices, is a rarity. Most of this type of paper work was tossed in the trash. Even luckier, I also have many supporting documents such as letters to said dealer and back from Harley that actually explain what is happening in the invoices. As a used Harley dealer for the past 33 plus years. and having owned well in excess of 10,000 Harley's, most of them original paint, I can count the exact number of bikes I have personally owned in original paint that I was aware of that at some point had been magically replaced in later years with the correct year and paint of their production time to ZERO. As such, one can logically assume that this particular 1940 came with this paint job. I have traced, finally, the history. The "Uncle" bought it new, the nephew inherited the machine upon his death which being a wise young man he promptly traded it into Wayne Pierce's dealership for a new Sportster and I might add, he had to pony up some cash AND the Knuckle. This is the same bike that was in Greg Field's book, "Original Harley Davidson Knucklehead, a restorer's guide" that came out pre Palmer in 1997. 11 pages devoted to this particular bike. It went in magazines, Calendar's, poster's. Until I bought it, everyone knew and accepted it as an original paint machine. But of course I cannot own anything like that. So people bash it, well, that is their problem. While I don't have the specific invoice to this specific machine, which even if I did, it would still not be 100,000 percent proof that the paint from the invoice is THE paint on it today. Logically, it would be highly improbable for it to not be. However, there are plenty of invoices pre war showing new bikes ordered in Hollywood Green (or various combinations)and chrome packages on youtube. Hunting Harleys. Like it or not, this is original paint, and it is 1938 Hollywood Green with a 1940 Paint Scheme.

  4. #14
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    We all know that the customer could order his new H-D painted any color they wanted. I have several order blanks and dealer invoices that show that. Most dealers save their invoices. A friend has a letter signed by William S. Harley to a customer acknowledging you could order your machine in any color for $7.50 extra. This was in 1941. It is simply a few things on this 1940 Hollywood Green machine that are obviously not original. You can fabricate any story you want to justify how a 1939 ONLY transmission would up in a Mid Year production 1940. I am sure that after being in the business of building motorcycles for over thirty five years Bill Harley and the Davidson brothers knew how to have materials as needed on hand and wouldn't suddenly run out of parts on the assembly line. Pointing out incorrect things on any machine is not bashing. It is simply making note of something inconsistant with the norm.
    Take the case of a 1936 EL that Jay Leno purchased from the original owners family. The family guaranteed Jay that the bike was all original although it had been repainted. I inspected the bike for him and found it was in a 1941-1944 frame with same era fork. Jay contacted the family and asked about it. The family remembered that dad had an accident during WWII and the bike was taken to the dealership for repair. So in their mind because the bike was repaired at the dealership it had to be all original. None of us can tell what has been done to a motorcycle during its life. Just because the machine belonged to Uncle Willie doesn't mean that Uncle Willie never changed anything on it.
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  5. #15
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    My apologies in advance for butting in with a silly question Folks,

    But isn't the History of a machine after it left the Factory equally noteworthy?

    ....Cotten
    AMCA #776
    Dumpster Diver's Motto: Seek,... and Ye Shall Find!

  6. #16
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    Yes Tom it is. But not when it is being presented as original.
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  7. #17

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    Chris, any ridden machine will have been serviced, and often repaired. During it's life, it generally has added accessories put on it, either at the dealership, by HD themselves, or by the owner. This is the norm for any used machine. Let us set a "precedent". An Original Paint machine means simply that it has paint on the painted parts that was applied at Harley Davidson when the parts on the machine where new. In no way does it imply that no alterations were ever made by anyone. Few machines left the factory in bone stock nothing altered as per the catalog trim in relation to the abundance of custom ordered machines (IE, even something like a Police radio or siren would have to be ordered and is therefor "extra" and not bone stock). Let us put this into perspective. I have, currently, 9 original paint Knucklehead's. Not counting all the other thousands of original paint machines I have owned. I have wrenched them apart, rebuilt them, torn them down to the ground and made them run again. You, with the knowledge you have, have never owned an original paint machine, have never rebuilt or restored anything, ever. The one bike you took to Dixon AMCA National telling them it was an original paint machine; was laughed out of judging because the old paint on it was so bad, essentially like a spray can job, and was a hodge podge of parts at best. For someone who has done so much for the hobby, essentially read and talk, your knowledge does not count, at least not to me. I did not ask for your "opinion" on this motorcycle. The post was entirely intended to show the real 1938 Hollywood Green the original poster requested, nothing more. Last, if you think manufacturers never run out of parts and use what is on hand, your showing your ignorance of the manufacturing process. HD, every other manufacturer did, then, now, and will into the future. How might a 1939 set of gears ended up in this 1940? it has a 1940 transmission case. So, either the customer ORDERED it, or HD put it in themselves as it was what they had. Either way, how, does not matter as much as it is there, it will remain there, it is MY bike, and not anyone else's.

  8. #18
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    Todd. You know not of what you speak. My Servi-car won a Junior First at Dixon that year. It can never earn a Senior First because of the mandatory 6 point deduction for having been repainted. I have had several original paint machines in the past. But they were no big deal in those days. Then if you had an OP bike you would immediately repaint it to make it look fresh. You seem to forget that I owned a custom shop in Santa Monica in the '70's. You were too young to know that. I built several bikes there. I have built several bikes at my home also. I have a couple bikes growing on the bench now. I will admit that I have not owned 10,000 motorcycles in my lifetime. I seriously doubt that anyone has.
    I will say that I have never met anyone better than fabricating a story than you.
    Be sure to visit;
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    Be sure to register at the site so you can see large images.
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  9. #19

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    It looks like the topic of green has pretty much been covered. Please don't take it somewhere else.
    Thanks
    Gary

  10. #20
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    Sep 2007
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    Gary, don't pull the plug! There just warming up!

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