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Thread: Restoration of a Bosch ZEV magneto

  1. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoschZEV View Post
    Instead of spinning a coil of wire in a stationary magnetic field the Dixie basically spins the magnetic field in a stationary coil of wire. I don't have one to measure but I believe the rotating part of a Dixie is heavier than the rotating armature of a Bosch. Irrespective of its total weight, since that rotating part is asymmetric it is more likely not to be perfectly balanced. That will result in vibration which will be hard on the bearings. However, it would be straightforward to balance the armature to eliminate this as a problem. Other than that one issue to pay attention to, there's no reason a Dixie shouldn't be as reliable as a Bosch ZEV.
    Based on my precise scientific method and ultra-sensitive measuring and test equipment (a.k.a. my fingers) the Dixie rotor does seem to have a bit of a dynamic imbalance. See the attached video. Of course, as long as the bearings and their support structure are designed to handle the resulting loads, this doesn't necessarily result in a reliability issue.






    Kevin


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    1916 Indian Powerplus - Cannonball Bike
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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaky Jake View Post
    ) the Dixie rotor does seem to have a bit of a dynamic imbalance. See the attached video.
    Well, that video certainly explains your screen name. Either you had way too much coffee before making the video, or that magneto is a candidate for balancing. Just doing a simple static balance on a good set of rollers should make a big improvement, although the asymmetry means there will be a rocking couple that only could be dealt with by a dynamic balance. Still, that secondary source of vibration should be considerably less than the primary.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    BoschZEV.

    From knowing nothing about Magnetos to buying a ZEV for my J and taking it apart to diagnose condition I must thank you on your write up! I'm sure you've heard it a thousand times but the technical information presented about the ZEV is unmatched! I've probably spent about 10 hours pouring over every detail of my magneto in order to bring it into proper working order. I did run into a little trouble with how the brass insert where the earth brush rides comes out of the plate. After some... mistakes were made... I realized that it is threaded in after the fact. The oiler on the plate has a brass piece that acts as a stake to keep everything aligned and I did not know this when trying to take the piece out. The reason for disassembly was the earth plate was pulling away from the aluminum plate, and was wearing on the earth brush quite bad. I did manage to wrangle to back in correctly and is now in working condition!

    I didn't quite understand the importance of re-magnetization until I had it done, I used to turn my armature about to do points adjustments decently fast and now I shock the sense right out of me.

    I'd like to find the proper equipment such as your testers, I quite like this stuff but it's real tough to acquire!
    Last edited by whp; 12-22-2016 at 01:30 PM.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by whp View Post
    ...the technical information presented about the ZEV is unmatched!
    Thanks very much for the kind words. I always like to hear when my efforts have helped someone with their magneto, although I do know the information is of interest from the number of views this thread gets. Thanks again.

  5. #75
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    NH
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    Dear Mr. BoschZEV:

    I am working on my first mag, a Bosch ZE1. ZE1 Armature A.jpgZE1 Armature B.jpg
    I really appreciate your articles as guidance to the process of investigation and remediation.
    My question is on measuring the coil in the armature. I have used an ohm meter between the solder joints in the capacitor end cap and the slip ring and have an open condition from both A and B to the slip ring. Between A and B I have .6 ohm.
    It is not clear to me the winding connections and whether I should have resistance between A or B and the slip ring. I assume so.
    Can you advise?
    I also ask for clarification regarding removal of the end cap. Looks like I should un-solder the wires from the end cap connections prior to removing the end cap?
    How is the winding connected to the slip ring? If I were to pull the slip ring, will I find the wire soldered?
    Thanks in advance for your valuable time.
    Dan
    Dan Margolien
    Yankee Chapter National Meet August 3/4 2018 NEW LOCATION at the TERRYVILLE FAIRGROUNDS, Terryville CT http://www.bing.com/local?lid=YN873x...ir&FORM=SNAPST
    Yankeechapter.org
    pocketvalve@gmail.com
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  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    have an open condition from both A and B to the slip ring. Between A and B I have .6 ohm.
    If I understand your labeling correctly, A and B are on opposite sides of the condenser. If so, and if the condenser is good, the reading should be ~0.6 Ohms because you're making the measurement between the lead that comes from the coil and the housing, i.e. through the primary coil. So ~0.6 Ohms is what it should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    It is not clear to me the winding connections and whether I should have resistance between A or B and the slip ring. I assume so.
    Can you advise?
    One side of the condenser is connected to the housing, while the other side connects through the primary back to the housing (~0.6 Ohms) as well as through the primary and the secondary to the slip ring (i.e. it's ~0.6 Ohms + ~4 KOhms = ~4 kOhms because the 0.6 Ohms is a negligible addition to the total resistance unless you're using a 6-digit ohmmeter).

    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    I also ask for clarification regarding removal of the end cap. Looks like I should un-solder the wires from the end cap connections prior to removing the end cap?
    Yes, you have to un-solder the lead the connects the condenser to the coil. It's OK to unsolder the other lead as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    How is the winding connected to the slip ring? If I were to pull the slip ring, will I find the wire soldered?
    This wire is not soldered. The wire exiting the secondary is a slip fit in the slip ring. Since it will be at several kV when the coil "fires" the small gap is inconsequential. However, depending on how the wire is in that hole it may or may not be physically touching the metal of the slip ring (or it may be oxidized) so even with a good coil you still could get an infinite reading between the coil lead attached to the condenser and the outer surface of the slip ring. Once you remove the slip ring the wire will be exposed and you can make the necessary measurements. Once you have the end cap and the slip ring removed, and the coil is free standing, the resistance between the two wires at the condenser end of the coil will be ~0.6 Ohms, and between either of them and the exposed wire at the other end will be several kOhms.

    Just to be clear, I've written 0.6 Ohms above but it might be anywhere within a factor of two of that depending on how Bosch made it back in the Dark Ages. Similarly, anything in the range ~3-8 kOhms is probably fine. However, coils that pass DC ohmmeter tests can still fail dynamic tests so your measurements can still give false positives for coils that will fail in operation.
    Last edited by BoschZEV; 01-09-2017 at 01:22 AM. Reason: correct a mistake

  7. #77
    Join Date
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    NH
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    Well, it took me a bit to get back. I made up this puller adapter to remove the inner bearing races, when the split washer is installed, and the slip ring when they are removed. I used a 2 jaw puller to remove the parts from the shaft.P1060395.jpgP1060397.jpgP1060398.jpgP1060399.jpg
    Dan Margolien
    Yankee Chapter National Meet August 3/4 2018 NEW LOCATION at the TERRYVILLE FAIRGROUNDS, Terryville CT http://www.bing.com/local?lid=YN873x...ir&FORM=SNAPST
    Yankeechapter.org
    pocketvalve@gmail.com
    JD enthusiasts: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/harleyjd/

  8. #78
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    NH
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    Then I got the end cap off the armature assembly, and removed the part containing the capacitor. Now to remove the cap and replace with my Vishay caps. Questions- is that the cap, the silver area between the brass? Do I remove the rivets and pull off the brass to expose the original caps? And then fit the new caps in that space? I assume I need to retain as much material as possible and the stub that goes through the end cap and takes the screw for the points mechanism. Thanks again for all your support!
    P1060390.jpgP1060391.jpgP1060392.jpgP1060393.jpgP1060394.jpg
    Dan Margolien
    Yankee Chapter National Meet August 3/4 2018 NEW LOCATION at the TERRYVILLE FAIRGROUNDS, Terryville CT http://www.bing.com/local?lid=YN873x...ir&FORM=SNAPST
    Yankeechapter.org
    pocketvalve@gmail.com
    JD enthusiasts: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/harleyjd/

  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    Well, it took me a bit to get back. I made up this puller adapter to remove the inner bearing races, when the split washer is installed, and the slip ring when they are removed. I used a 2 jaw puller to remove the parts from the shaft.P1060395.jpgP1060397.jpgP1060398.jpgP1060399.jpg
    Nice job!

    Kevin
    .
    1916 Indian Powerplus - Cannonball Bike
    1941 Indian Chief - Sonny
    1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
    1969 BMW R60US
    1973 Moto Guzzi Eldorado
    Etcetera

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    389

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    Questions- is that the cap, the silver area between the brass? Do I remove the rivets and pull off the brass to expose the original caps? And then fit the new caps in that space?
    The entire assembly in your photos is the capacitor. A large number of thick mica plates are separated by very thin metal "plates," alternate ones electrically connected to one brass piece and the other set of alternate ones to the other. One brass piece (and half the metal plates) is connected to the threaded stub so you'll need to recycle that stub by connecting one electrode of the modern, replacement capacitor to it. The other electrode of the modern capacitor goes to the appropriate wire of the coil.

    I hope the above is clear. I'm unbelievably jet-lagged at the moment so I wouldn't be surprised if I re-read it tomorrow and say "huh?" to my instructions. if it's not clear don't hesitate to say so.

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