Getting Judged - first time

[rbenash]

Totally understand that Chris and have all the literature that shows your view.

My question as far as judging and this weird sort of controversy on 65's with battery covers is in my previous statement.

If accessories on a resto that are period correct are not considered then why pick out this battery cover and apply the hit?

Understand, I'm not picking a bone here so much as understanding the rulings in this specific case. Really don't understand how accessories that are period correct on a resto are not penalized, then hey if you have a 65 with the battery cover on it at a meet you get a 1/4 point, etc. It's either a period correct accessory or its not and the same rule should apply, but I'm not a judge and not challenging just trying to understand why the heck a period battery cover (a 66 accessory) get's you a whack, when period correct accessories are to be ignored.

I am not a judge and I respect the judges expertise but in my small mind there seems to be an in-congruency on this. The battery cover is an accessory or it's not, accessories are not part of judging (if period correct) or they are. Just trying to wrap my head around why the battery cover accessory on a 65 pan seems to be getting singled out somehow.

Maybe this is why some judges nick you and some don't on this one.

So the more general question would be on a restoration - if you have period correct accessories (within the correct year range for accessories) on the bike being judged as a resotration are they judged along with the bike or ignored (if period correct) for purposes of the judging rules on restorations as far as my understanding goes.

Tells me how much I should strip my bike for judging. If the tach accessory is not considered during judging do I get hit if the tach cable isn't routed correctly or is it ignored If I remove the battery cover and have a deka battery instead of an original logo HD battery do I still take a point hit?

That said I love the exposed battery on the '65 - but if I do one I want it to be a logo style as in the factory photos. Would love to have a nice shell I can work with if anyone has one for sale. Also as far as the covers. My understanding from the parts books is that the top cover for the battery is the same and same PN and that the cover accessory introduced in '65 used the same top cover.

[Chris Haynes]

Period means the accessory was available when the bike was being made. In this case the battery cover appeared with the 1966 Shovel heads so therefore is not correct for the 1965 Panhead period. As I said before it may be overlooked or simply mentioned on the judging sheet. I do know a judge from New York that will take points off for it.

[rbenash]

Good to know, thanks.

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Ray, I'll be at Chesapeake although not a Panhead expert. In addition to what the other judges have said, I'd recommend signing up as an apprentice and walking around with the judging team, which you're now allowed to do as an owner. You'll find the system is run by humans with a fantastic amount of knowledge but who don't always agree. These guys give up a whole day to put their knowledge back into our Club, and help out that modest proportion of members who want to play the game of getting bikes as they looked when new. We ride our bikes, so you are not penalised for signs of this. The system is not meant to generate trailer queens, and eastern US owners can run their bikes up through the system into Winners' Circle in one season, after which you 'only' need to maintain 85 points, and that's a lot of road wear.

[rbenash]

Sounds good Steve. Probably going to start going through the process @ Oley meet now since travel is going to get me back home on the weekend of the Chesapeake meet so not going to work out. I'll be planning to start going through the judging effort on my bike end of April next year unless I get down to FL for the Eustis meet. I assume I can sign up as an apprentice and do the same at any one of the meets, correct? That sound pretty cool, I'd like to do that. Thanks for the info.

[Underdoggie]

If there are any '65 Pan owners watching please chime in on how your experience went and what your hit list was.

Ray, as you may remember my 65FL is a Winners Circle, judged in the "Original" catagory. I would be happy to provide you with my judging sheets and discuss these with you, just message me if you want to do this. I did it in two seasons, Davenport 09, Wauseon 10 and Davenport 10. It was an interesting experience. I was real nervous the first time out. After that is was OK. After your Junior First, make sure you have your past judging sheets available for the next judging. That is real important. I actually made a book with tabs in it for "Factory Documentation", "Owner History", "Repairs/Replacements" and "Judging Results". At Wauseon the judges actually used some of my "Factory Documentation" info on another 65 that was being judged, but in general the judges did not seem to interested in my book which was kind of disappointing to me, especially the Owner History and Repairs/Replacement sections. When we first got the bike in 79 there was not a wrap around cover on the battery ( I bought one at a swap meet in 1979 and put it on) so my first time being judged I left it off and got a 1/4 point deduction for not having it. I put it back on for the 2nd and 3rd judging and nothing was said about it.
I was a bit disappointed in the process from the point of view of not knowing what the deductions were for until after the judging is done and then everyone leaves so there is nobody to discuss it with. On my third time being judged I was actually asked to "step away" and not be in the area the bike was being judged in. In my case I would not have interfered with the judges but I can imagine some guys would be a real pain if you let them hang around.
There were some other strange issues with my third judging as well. If you want to talk more about my experience with this let me know.

[rbenash]

Hey John - thanks will definitely be sending a PM. Would be great to review the whole process with you and get an owners perspective on the whole process. Especially from someone who has been through it with a '65 Pan.

Interesting as I had been told previous to bring detail along and that if you had a concern or perhaps supporting information the time to do that was right after the judging so things could get resolved if there was a disconect or disagreement that you could support with factory detail, etc.

I'll need to adjust expectations on that part.


Ray

[Tommo]

These may help at judging.
They are the HD factory order sheets that Dad used to order his 1965 Pan.
They are pretty self explanatory

[Tommo]

The site wouldn't let me put them all up on one post.
Sorry about that.
Here's the last page.

[upsrod]

Ray,
Everyone seems to go round and round about the side battery cover on the 65's. Like Underdoggie said, he got dinged without it. Many think it
should be smooth not rippled. I sold some 65 parts to two judges at Davenportand they said accessories were not judged.
What I see on your bike now are the two screws holding the handlebar clamp cover should be round head phillips not slot, muffler clamp bolts
should be parkerized. The left side heat shield is wrong one for 65. the right rear heat shield didn't start until 66. 65 doesn't use the 65510-61
support clamp. Wrong bolts on the battery and ground cables. The regulator cover wasn't available in 65 but I see them a lot on winner circle bikes!!?
That is all I see now.

Rod