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Thread: judging frustration

  1. #31

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    Chris, it's in the magazine article, pg 42. And I seem to remember you stating that you personally had (at least) once given a "100" score where it was deserved- but that was the only time I've heard of a "100"- and seems like one "official" had been quoted as saying that there was no such thing as a 100-point bike- which, IMHO, is just not right

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeanGene View Post
    Chris, it's in the magazine article, pg 42. And I seem to remember you stating that you personally had (at least) once given a "100" score where it was deserved- but that was the only time I've heard of a "100"- and seems like one "official" had been quoted as saying that there was no such thing as a 100-point bike- which, IMHO, is just not right
    That official is pushing up daisies. A bike that no one can find a fault with through three inspections by AMCA judges, through Junior, Senior and Winners' Circle, deserves what it gets.
    I judged a 1973 or 74 little Aermacchi Harley 175 at Silver Sands. It had only 1,000+ miles on it & it got over 99 points. Had some multi-colored strap holding the battery in, which was a white replacement, not a black one. Rest was so nice, we took a half- a-point, I think, and wrote the owner a note. Just two tiny corrections, and it'll rate like a bike that just rolled out of a crate. You can't fault one of them, provided they're correctly set-up.

    Of course, once you take one of those "crate bikes" out and set it up, you about halve its resale value! We know of at least a couple of those twin-carbed, streetracer XL's are out there, still in their boxes. How can you fault that? Once the owner proves that the correct-year Milwaukee, Wisconsin air is still in the tires, I mean.
    Last edited by Sargehere; 03-28-2012 at 05:22 PM.

  3. #33

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    Sarge, or anyone else, how many "100"'s have you seen, or heard about? Interesting the way you worded that, "that no one can find a fault with" as opposed to "nothing wrong with"

  4. #34
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    100 pt bikes DO exist! But they are pretty rare with the American stuff from before the '60s. My first restoration was a '47 Chief that I managed 99 3/4 pts with. I was dinged by the slightly weathered speedo face. Fair enough, I knew it going in, and the heck if I was going to replace it with a repro.
    These days, with the insurge of a new year-of-manufacture bike added to our ranks, we finding more & more "near perfect" bikes. Things got so picky in the Antique Car world, that they opted for a 1000 point system!
    It's all about preserving the machine for future reference.
    Very Happy with 99 3/4pts, RF.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fred View Post
    100 pt bikes DO exist!
    OK, where? I agree that there have to be worthy bikes out there, but, again, how many "100"'s have you seen, or heard about, that were given their due and not nit-picked to death? Actually given a "100"?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeanGene View Post
    OK, where? I agree that there have to be worthy bikes out there, but, again, how many "100"'s have you seen, or heard about, that were given their due and not nit-picked to death? Actually given a "100"?
    Judging for inaccuracies is not nit picking. If something is wrong it is wrong. Plain and simple.
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  7. #37
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    It's easy to give a "once-over" to someone's restoration of a 1930's-era bike, for instance, see the right salient features and say, "there's nothing wrong with that." But that's far from the inspection given such a machine, maybe built from hundreds of accumulated parts that were picked up from far and wide, that now are representing a bike that rolled off a manufacturer's assembly line three quarters of a century ago. There are as many ways to go wrong as there are opinions about what's right, after all this time.

    That's why, unless built from an "original paint" bike that was intact from the get-go (a definite no-no now, but once considered a bonanza for the basis of a "restoration" years ago) there's almost always something revealed to several sets of expert eyes in twenty minutes of examination, by a team of people who know at what they're looking. That's also why I call every restoration, to some extent, a "replica." It's an attempt to build something that never was, in its time; an ideal, perfection, and most fall short.

    What I'm saying is that, without resorting to that statement that was never true: "there are no hundred-point bikes," there are so many ways to go wrong that it sometimes seems that no one, ever, can get every, single, little thing right. When presented with completed judging sheets and a judge willing to patiently explain the details, most owner/restorers understand, and strive to make corrections to achieve the next level.

    And then, there are some bikes, having flaws like a long ago run-in with a streetcar, perhaps, with replacement forks, engines and/or frames, that, like the little boy on crutches, are never going to make team, but have to satisfy themselves with a role as "team manager," or "waterboy." Not every bike is eligible for the Winner's Circle, almost no matter how hard the owner tries.

  8. #38
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    Every bike starts with 100 points before the judges see it, so they are not awarded 100 points, it's just that the judges cannot find any deductions. I worry about say 100 point Marushos, because it could just be that the judges don't know enough about that model to find faults. I've been in the unlucky position of judging a 1970s Harley two-stroke with a 'for sale' sign on it, about which I knew little, and promised myself I wouldn't do the Chief Judge any favours like this again. The judging system can now decline to judge a bike if a qualified team cannot be put together, but I don't know if this has happened yet.

    We do now see 100 point bikes, where a well qualified AMCA judging team is not able to find any deductions in say 20 minutes. We had a 1970s Honda at Davenport a couple of years ago, and I believe the first was one of Pete Reeves' 1942 Harley ELC Canadian military knuckleheads. A judging team including Bruce Linsday beat their heads against this particular wall for perhaps half an hour but could find no faults. Surely this is the definition of a 100 point bike.

    As Gerry says, sign up as an apprentice judge next time you're at a National Meet. It's a system run by fallible humans, but they do the best job they can. These are mostly guys who could have been home a day earlier, putting their knowledge back into the Club for the benefit of the next generation of members and the preservation of our little piece of motorcycle history.

  9. #39
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    My original 3900 mile 68 went thru 6 judgings as I corrected everything that they dinged trying to achieve the personal satisfaction of 100 pt bike. Included in this were gas line and clamps after being told these were safety and maintanance items not deducted for until the 3rd judging. It was always at 99 or above. Always some "NEW" item would be found and corrected not seen previously by the SAME judges. On try # 6 they pointed out 1 nut that was claimed to be wrong finish, by the SAME judges, never picked up before even tho it was staring them in the face all thru 6 times. Don't get me wrong , I am very happy with what I have and ride the bike alot and will continue to do so.
    Last edited by D.A.Bagin; 03-29-2012 at 07:53 AM.
    D. A. Bagin #3166 AKA Panheadzz 440 48chief W/sidecar 57fl 57flh 58fl 66m-50 68flh 70xlh

  10. #40
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    I judged an original 77 XLCR at Freemont this year that scored 99 3/4 points. The bike had 275 miles on it, and was in unbelievable condition, just like the ones we were forced by the factory to take back in 1977.
    VPH-D

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