Page 2 of 20 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 195

Thread: judging frustration

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    1,267

    Default

    ALL the bikes are documented on an updated (after each meet) data base, just not accessible to the general public. I'm not really into the judging, I've only had one bike go through the system (a 1920 original paint Winners Circle), but don't see the need to have the results of the "best bikes" available to me. If I'm going to restore a bike (which I will never do again) I will do the home work and learn how it needs to be.

    I think Cotton hit the nail on the head, "all this energy and dedication" is what we DON't have at this time on the national level for the judging. The Chief Judges job has to be the toughest job in the club, he or a representative is expected to go to all the meets to over see the national judging. In my opinion the club needs to find some one to do the job and make sure he is taken care of for his time and expenses. The national judging has been in disarray long enough and should be the boards top priority. Any comments?
    Louie
    FaceBook >>>Modern Antique Cycle
    Blog Site >>> http://louiemcman.blogspot.com/
    YouTube >>> LouieMCman

    Make Plans to Attend the 10th Annual Southern National Meet May, 2019
    Denton FarmPark, Denton, NC

    http://www.amcasouthernnationalmeet.com/index.htm

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    31

    Default

    Amen brother!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by louiemcman View Post
    all the bikes are documented on an updated (after each meet) data base, just not accessible to the general public. I'm not really into the judging, i've only had one bike go through the system (a 1920 original paint winners circle), but don't see the need to have the results of the "best bikes" available to me. If i'm going to restore a bike (which i will never do again) i will do the home work and learn how it needs to be.

    I think cotton hit the nail on the head, "all this energy and dedication" is what we don't have at this time on the national level for the judging. The chief judges job has to be the toughest job in the club, he or a representative is expected to go to all the meets to over see the national judging. In my opinion the club needs to find some one to do the job and make sure he is taken care of for his time and expenses. The national judging has been in disarray long enough and should be the boards top priority. Any comments?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Princeville, IL
    Posts
    95

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LouieMCman View Post
    The national judging has been in disarray long enough and should be the boards top priority. Any comments?
    I have only been a member for a couple of years. I met Kevin Valintine at my first meet and liked him right off and thought he did a great job and had hoped to learn more from him, I even thought about participating as a judge (my knowledge of 60's and 70's shovelheads is pretty fair. Then the next year he was gone, I didnt know what to think, then I met Steve Dawdy at Waseuon last year and liked him too and thought he was doing a great job, now he is gone too. In my opinion one of these guys should be the top dog judge and stay in the job for a long time and that would make things better. Another thing, I think the judging should be more of a main event thing at the meets and done on Saturdays, make it more of a production. Maybe do the juging over the entire meet, like certain classes on one day and other classes on another day or even morning and afternoon judging. I have heard the argument that it needs to be on Sundays because of this and that. I have only been to four meets so far and on Saturday afternoons you better stay out of the way or you will get run over by vendors leaving and going home, some of them need to as they are far away. I know for me Sundays were tuff as I need to get back home. just a newer guys thoughts.
    John Underwood
    AMCA#14400
    Central Illinois

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    S.E.N.Y. State American side of Hudson River
    Posts
    484

    Default

    Alex, I'll take the catagory "Worms" for $500.

    What is; "Im free, I'm free, I'm free at last!!

    What the worms said when the can got opened.
    D. A. Bagin #3166 AKA Panheadzz 440 48chief W/sidecar 57fl 57flh 58fl 66m-50 68flh 70xlh

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Posts
    4,166

    Default

    [QUOTE=LouieMCman;110149]ALL the bikes are documented on an updated (after each meet) data base, just not accessible to the general public.

    What I meant was; documented photographically and with notations so the best bikes are preserved in some way. As it is now, a fantastic motorcycle finishes judging and goes back in it's hole and may never be seen in public again. So the guy gets a trophy. . Whoop-dee-do. Unless you were there to see the bike and take your own pictures, the whole process of judging that bike was somewhat pointless. As far as I'm concerned, unless AMCA judging can produce the kind of usefull reference photos and documentation that actually helps our members restore their motorcycles, the AMCA may need to reassess the value of judging. . . . Because, all judging is producing now is heartache, and hard feelings.
    Eric Smith
    AMCA #886

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    rural eastern South Dakota
    Posts
    934

    Default

    [QUOTE=exeric;110156]
    Quote Originally Posted by LouieMCman View Post
    ALL the bikes are documented on an updated (after each meet) data base, just not accessible to the general public.

    What I meant was; documented photographically and with notations so the best bikes are preserved in some way. As it is now, a fantastic motorcycle finishes judging and goes back in it's hole and may never be seen in public again. So the guy gets a trophy. . Whoop-dee-do. Unless you were there to see the bike and take your own pictures, the whole process of judging that bike was somewhat pointless. As far as I'm concerned, unless AMCA judging can produce the kind of usefull reference photos and documentation that actually helps our members restore their motorcycles, the AMCA may need to reassess the value of judging. . . . Because, all judging is producing now is heartache, and hard feelings.
    In my perfect little world, I will reference the Foundation's library, and find volumes of photos on my sport scouts, with fine detail, and perhaps printed discussion on various parts. ....
    Those books are expensive, and often show only one profile of the model you're looking for. It is indeed a tough job building a bike to original form. It sometimes seems that it's (restoration for judging) a game that likes its mystery more than espousing the preservationist mantra.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Central Illinois, USA
    Posts
    4,314

    Default

    [QUOTE=Phil Mast;110167]
    Quote Originally Posted by exeric View Post
    It sometimes seems that it's (restoration for judging) a game that likes its mystery more than espousing the preservationist mantra.
    Gosh, Phil,

    There's nothing 'preservationist' at all when the rule is if one piece is restored, all of it must be.

    The restoration game has destroyed more history than it shall ever preserve.

    ....Cotten
    Last edited by T. Cotten; 05-28-2011 at 09:01 AM.
    AMCA #776
    Dumpster Diver's Motto: Seek,... and Ye Shall Find!

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    280

    Default

    A lot of very good points are being made here, I hope this word gets out.
    I will likely never have a bike judged, but I'm very interested in what's correct. I've never understood the club's hypocritical way of wanting to preserve accuracy, but not providing help with correct information. A lot of damage is done by following incorrect advice & information by researching as best we can. Cotton's excellent comment on restoring completely even if some parts are in excellent unrestored condition is also a problem. That should not be mandatory.
    If the club is true to its mission statement, it should provide updated, dated, "packets of accurate information & pics" on bikes as they are accumulated.
    These could be purchased to help fund the chief judges travel expenses. -Bob
    Bob

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Posts
    4,166

    Default

    I agree with everything you say, but I do not blame the AMCA for the stupidity of over-zealous trophy hounds. The worst sins were committed back in the 50's thru the 70's when old motorcycles were cheap and the AMCA membership was counted in the hundreds. Those guys sincerely thought they were preserving history and considering the number of motorcycles that still exist and aren't part of a Toyota; they could very well have saved our American motorcycle history.
    Eric Smith
    AMCA #886

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    North Hills, CA and Pine Grove, CA
    Posts
    5,462

    Default

    I agree we should have a preserved class along with original and restored. With that being said lets get back to restored. A restored machine must appear as it was new. A new machine would not have a part that was in "Excellent Unrestored Condition". Would you buy a new vehicle that contained excellent used parts? Therefore the rule is that if the machine is restored it must all be restored. There is no rule that if one part is restored that it all must be restored. Here is how that section reads,

    Guidelines for Original Motorcycles
    1. To encourage the preservation of original paint motorcycles, some
    degree of non-original paint is acceptable as specified below, but
    is expected to be consistent with original color and overall
    condition. Predominantly non-original paint on any major
    component that is unrepresentative of original and not in keeping
    with the overall appearance of the motorcycle requires a six-point
    deduction.
    2. Predominantly non-original paint on a single major component
    requires an automatic 3-point deduction.
    3. Predominantly non-original paint on two or more major
    components requires an automatic 6-point deduction.
    4. Predominantly non-original paint on minor components is a
    combined maximum 4-point deduction.
    5. Small touch ups of paint chips, scratches and the like are
    allowable on original motorcycles but are subject to preservation
    deductions based on consistency with overall condition with a
    maximum point deduction. More significant but not predominant
    repairs of a single major component can incur a deduction up to 3
    points, and up to 6 points on two or more major components.
    Repair and repaint of minor components that are not predominant
    are subject to a maximum preservation deduction of 1 point.
    6. The preservation of paint on original motorcycles refers to the
    condition of the paint relative to the age and overall condition of
    the motorcycle and motorcycles of similar age. Paint that appears
    significantly more worn than expected is subject to deductions
    Be sure to visit;
    http://www.vintageamericanmotorcycles.com/main.php
    Be sure to register at the site so you can see large images.
    Also be sure to visit http://www.caimag.com/forum/

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •