I got 100 points on an early sportster last year, but I think if you give a knowledgeable person long enough time they'll find something wrong. And really who cares if they do, Isn't that why your there? As long as it isn't something stupid like too much black stuff in the muffler.
Just thinking outside the box here on this one. What if it were "Documenting" instead of "judging"?
A pictoral book report could be created for each make/model/year and individual bikes that are respective of each and placed into the Virtual Library. This would preserve enourmous amounts of reference material on these old bikes. Now this is no small task, but a template could be setup that covers the different major categorys of the bike, perhaps similar to the judging sheet.
This data could be available to all members for reference, instead of hoping to see a certain bike at a meet that may or may not show up.
The judging committee for each make/model/year and individual bikes could be documented with the pictorals. You would essentially be creating the largest motorcycle encyclopedia ever.
I think that some members concerns are that the current system loses more information than it preserves.
Given this is no small task, the owner should be involved in creating the report and it should be reviewed by the comittee? A lot of the work could be done up front, reviewed in a session and then signed off by the committee locking it in. Of utmost priority should be known original machines.
I have heard of points being taken off for a bolt being in backwards, I'm sure that never happened on a human run assembly line back in the day.............the new guys first day - someone was sick, the morning after the superbowl - need I go on?
I participated in an apprentice judging session at Davenport a few years back, it was very enlightening. The biggest problem I see is that these "Experts" retain the information in their head, not documented in print for all to use and see. With that said even though I have never had a bike judged, I would like to extend a thanks to them for volunteering their time to the club.
Just a different point of view.
As a matter of interest regarding Pete Reeves ELC Knucklehead Canadian Military pattern bikes, are these equipped with the left hand sidecars? An old friend, who was stationed with the Canadian Ordnance Corps, Aldershot in Britain during WWII told me that they had just two of them, both run as solos. Originally, all 44 of the single batch of ELCs made were delivered from H-D with special sidecars with the wheels interchangeable with the bike wheels. I've not seen any ELCs here in Canada with these sidecars although I have pictures of the complete outfits on winter exercises with their designer (and the designer of the WLC) Tony Miller around 1942-43.
I would say they spent the allotted 15-20 min. on the bike. Remember they have the previous sheets to go by. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the time and effort the judges put into this and it sometimes is a thankless job and I want to thank them. They donate their time, energy and knowledge for the club and the members for this. They could be on the highway on their way home.
D. A. Bagin #3166 AKA Panheadzz 440 48chief W/sidecar 57fl 57flh 58fl 66m-50 68flh 70xlh
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As Kevin said, the idea of documenting Winners Circle bikes has been around for a long time. It has not been abandoned, but requires considerable effort plus volunteers. Matt Olsen put together a list of what pictures might be required, but it was hard to organise the bikes/photographers to be in the same place at the same time. I produced a video of a Winners Circle 1936 Harley VLH being judged, which is now posted on the Virtual Library. It took about two days photography and two days editing to produce, costing about $1000 and took $30 in commercial sales, so is not for the faint hearted.
We don't keep all the judging info in our heads to try to catch out owners. My VL book has been through five editions this last 20 years, and some of the info in the early versions has been superseded, as well as new items included. Don't forget Jerry Hatfield's work on the Indians, and the many scarce original brochures already loaded onto the Virtual Library by George Yarocki, Bruce Linsday, Dr Cleveland and other worthy AMCA donors.
That they might have had special axles and star hub wheels would only make sense, since the WLCs had Big Twin front wheels, brakes and fork rockers already, which would make the whole whole rig have interchangeable wheels and only one wheel type to keep in stock. in the supply chain.
I applaud you and others and I have patronized the likes of Yarocki, Linsday and Hatfield. I am very thankful for their work. I will have to check out your video, although not of great interest to me at this point, due to my current project being of the other brand.
First, let me say that I think it would be wise to put the photo requirements on the owner, the owner is the one that wants to judge/document his bike so he should take an active role in that. He should know alot about his bike as it is in his posession most of the time. There could be a defined set of pictures required to accomplish this.
As I think about your comments about your video and Matt's pictures, I envision the ultimate in documenting winners circle machines being something similar to google street view. Here is how it could work, you park the bike in a designated spot within the working envelope of machine with an automated camera that can circle and hover around the machine capturing every aspect of the machine in high definition video or stills and then it would create an electronic 3D version of the machine that could be viewed interactively later on. If you could insert arrows and comments and text then you could identify the intricacies of the machine.........
This is probably not that far fetched with today's technology. Look at the Metrology world of 3D scanners and laser measuring equipement coupled with video/photo. Put the bike in, turn it on and sit back and relax.
Now that would be one awesome virtual library! Just like you were standing in front of the bike at a meet, except not as cool cuz your not at a meet.