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Thread: Rhinebeck???

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Hummelstown, PA
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    901

    Default Rhinebeck???

    Alrighty then. Here we are a mere 2 weeks till one of the largest meets and we still don't have a published, clear set of rules for the new and improved (?) judging.

    Seriously, What the #@*!

    Is anyone even going to bother entering a machine? Or is it now all about the timeline?
    Brian Howard AMCA#5866

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Central Illinois, USA
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    Brian!

    Everyone can still enjoy Chapter awards, like Farthest Ridden or whatever...

    There's no reason to avoid Field Events, or having fun in spite of the turmoil in serious judging.

    Wish I could be there!

    ....Cotten
    AMCA #776
    Dumpster Diver's Motto: Seek,... and Ye Shall Find!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    Mitford Community, South Carolina
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    Default

    If your bike has bad numbers, and you should know whether that is the case or can find out at the meet from an expert, don't bother to enter the judging. If your numbers are good and you want to have it judged, do so. In any case, if you can go to Rhinebeck or any other meet, do so. A boycott only hurts those members who have worked so very hard to put on a meet and those who do not attend.
    Lonnie Campbell #9908
    South Cackalackey, U.S. of A.

    Come see us at the Tenth Annual AMCA Southern National Meet - May 17-19, 2019 at Denton FarmPark, Denton, N.C.

    Visit the website for vendor and visitor information at www.amcasouthernnationalmeet.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Central Florida
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    939

    Default What turmoil?

    Lonnie hit it on the head. If your bike has bad numbers, then don't bother to enter it.
    The minutes of the Eustis BoD meeting lay it out as clearly as I needed (I got my Summer, 2010, The Antique Motorcycle the other day), and this is what it said:

    The minutes of the meeting of the AMCA BoD held at Eustis, FL, on February 26, 2010 are printed in the Summer issue of The Antique Motorcycle, official magazine of the Antique Motorcycle Club of America.
    The ten topics (for Topic #9 it says "Not Applicable," and Topic #10 was divided into "10A," and "10B") are described, and the votes on each reported in detail.
    All but one Topic of the proposal appears to have, "passed, 9 in favor, 1 No."
    It's bare bones, but the appearance of the word "obvious," in matters concerning reproduction frames and engines is likely to start some more discussion:

    #6: "Obvious reproduction frame--6 point deduction." "passed, 9 in favor, 1 No."

    #7: "Obvious reproduction top end--6 point deduction." "passed, 9 in favor, 1 No."

    #8: "Obvious reproduction engine cases--Disqualified." "passed, 9 in favor, 1 No."

    #10-A: "OEM cases must have 'good' numbers," meaning right font for year and model and correct engine box." "passed, 9 in favor, 1 Abstained." and,

    #10B: "Restored motorcycles must have good numbers, meaning right font for year and model and correct engine box. If the numbers are "bad," the bike is Disqualified."
    On #10B, the vote was 7 in favor, 1 No and 2 Abstained. Motion approved."

    You will be receiving your own copy of The Antique Motorcycle over the next few weeks, if distribution proceeds as it usually does, around this interconnected world.

    It wasn't unanimous, and we all know to whom the "1 No" vote was attributed on all ten motions.
    Last edited by Sargehere; 05-29-2010 at 09:41 AM. Reason: fixed typo

  5. #5
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    This is written just for Harleys and Indians, right?
    Are reproduction frames, top-ends, and such a problem with Triumphs? Hondas?

    As an out-sider,
    It is obvious to me that the entire system should be burned, and a relevant system based on common sense should be drawn up.
    One where the game is to improve the machines, and not "fool the judges" for a trophy.

    The dissident may have been the only one with his thinking cap on.

    .....Cotten
    AMCA #776
    Dumpster Diver's Motto: Seek,... and Ye Shall Find!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
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    Default

    The new rules are to weed out the increasing number of really good "Timeless" fakes and knuckleheads that never saw the inside of a Milwaukee motorcycle factory. I think the critics of the AMCA judging system should check it out first hand to see what is really going on. Also, you should talk to Steve Dawdy at your first opportunity. You will find a very friendly, approachable man that is in an extreamly contentious position in the AMCA. I met, and spoke to Steve for the first time at Denton. I've always said the two hardest jobs in the AMCA are Editor and Chief Judge but Steve's situation takes that up a notch. I would urge all club members to talk to Steve Dawdy, and instead of critcizing the man; see if you can offer some help or usefull advice. Like I said, he's a good listener and very approachable.
    Eric Smith
    AMCA #886

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by exeric View Post
    The new rules are to weed out the increasing number of really good "Timeless" fakes and knuckleheads that never saw the inside of a Milwaukee motorcycle factory. I think the critics of the AMCA judging system should check it out first hand to see what is really going on. Also, you should talk to Steve Dawdy at your first opportunity. You will find a very friendly, approachable man that is in an extreamly contentious position in the AMCA. I met, and spoke to Steve for the first time at Denton. I've always said the two hardest jobs in the AMCA are Editor and Chief Judge but Steve's situation takes that up a notch. I would urge all club members to talk to Steve Dawdy, and instead of critcizing the man; see if you can offer some help or usefull advice. Like I said, he's a good listener and very approachable.
    Thanks for confirming this out-sider's suspicions, Eric.

    A system biased towards any marque, pro or con, is fatally flawed.

    That should be obvious to all.

    .....Cotten
    AMCA #776
    Dumpster Diver's Motto: Seek,... and Ye Shall Find!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    North Hills, CA and Pine Grove, CA
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    5,455

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T. Cotten View Post
    This is written just for Harleys and Indians, right?
    Are reproduction frames, top-ends, and such a problem with Triumphs? Hondas?

    As an out-sider,
    It is obvious to me that the entire system should be burned, and a relevant system based on common sense should be drawn up.
    One where the game is to improve the machines, and not "fool the judges" for a trophy.

    The dissident may have been the only one with his thinking cap on.

    .....Cotten
    I think the perception here is to stop counterfeiting. Converting a standard machine into a Factory Racer. Passing off a replica machine as an original. I am sure there may be more Two Cam and 8 Valve bikes around today than the factory made. Does this ban affect replacement cylinders and heads? How many sidevalve machines have aftermarket cylinders or heads on them today? Should a restored 1909 machine be disqualified if it has a reproduction cylinder on it? What if the carburetor is a reproduction? It seems that any other reproduction part is deemed to be OK.
    What about the machine that was found operating a piece of farm equipment? Half the frame was missing so a replacement was made. Is this bike disqualified?
    Has this section of the Judging Handbook been rewritten? 6. "Accurately reproduced parts count the same as original while judging a restored category. However, in judging an original condition category the part must be original."
    Be sure to visit;
    http://www.vintageamericanmotorcycles.com/main.php
    Be sure to register at the site so you can see large images.
    Also be sure to visit http://www.caimag.com/forum/

  9. #9

    Default "funny" Triumph serial numbers

    T. Cotton asked if the new rules about serial numbers also relate to British and Japanese bikes.
    As a judge of Triumphs, BSAs and other British brands, I will disqualify any British bike with improper serial numbers, or Triumphs of which the frame and engine numbers do not match. I have a photo album and serial number
    lists showing factory serial numbers on a year-by-year basis, and I can show how the factories stamped the numbers.
    I disqualified a Triumph at Davenport several years ago and, despite the
    protests of the owner, the disqualification held up.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Sarasota, Florida
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    Default

    I think Chris is correct about counterfeiting being at the source of what's going on. I think we have all heard the rumors about a particular bike and incident, but I personally don't know enough about the situation to make a comment about it. I can only speculate that it turned into a legal mess and in turn, screwed things up for a lot of people. Of course it's all about Harley Davidsons, simply because some models of H-D are the most valuable motorcycles on the planet. I don't think counterfeit 1967 Suzuki engine cases are going to be an issue in our lifetime, (and I'm not slamming Suzukis). Big money changed our hobby and the AMCA is caught in the maelstrom. If the AMCA chooses to stands for historic authenticity in motorcycles then that's the road we are going to be on. I'm not smart enough to know where that will lead, but I do know that reproduction engine cases, fake engine numbers, and bogus racing bikes have to be identified.
    Eric Smith
    AMCA #886

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