AMCA Judging Program

[Red Fred]

Red Fred
Are you saying that the Board has been silenced by legal advice and lawyers have instructed board members not to inform the general membership of the issues that affect the running of this club.

No Tommo, not at all. I was just giving a dig to the Lawyer types.
PS. Are you the NZ Tommo I contacted in regards to the HD Peashooter stuff?

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Lonnie, I've also bought a running 1931 V motor in a 1936 VL frame and made it back into two restored bikes. Like you say, all restored bikes are built out of parts.

The building of 'original' bikes out of parts is indeed a conundrum, and I've heard of Flying Merkels being built out of nos and possibly used parts. If the judges can't tell then they can't deduct points, but our marque specialists seem pretty good on detecting patinated paintwork, and make appropriate deductions.

The freshened-up judging system is not meant to be intimidating to owners, unless you're trying to put in a bike with mostly repro parts and/or bad numbers. We still have the 25 categories, the 4 points per category, the same awards cut-offs, and similar deductions for similar faults. The average Club owner should see very little change in the judging system, so don't hold back on entering your bikes.

The problems about lack of knowledge of the judges, and inconsistent points deductions, have been with us since Day 1. We're amateurs and humans, and make mistakes. There are plans to write more detailed guidance notes for each of the 25 categories, which should help to educate judges and improve consistency, but this is not a five minute job. Remember we now allow owners to sign up as apprentices and observe the team judging their bike, and this has helped a lot in having owners understand the system.

[Sportster Jerry]

Having repro cylinders is not "mostly repro parts," yet will keep someone from ever earning a Senior award. I would find that to be frustrating if it were my bike.

[bmh]

Are not cylinders wear items? Much like tires, leather, headlamp bulbs and the like? Some allowances need made for certain things. These are the definitions of restore I would say apply to our hobby;

re·store   /rɪˈstɔr, -ˈstoʊr/ Show Spelled[ri-stawr, -stohr] Show IPA
–verb (used with object),-stored, -stor·ing.

2.to bring back to a former, original, or normal condition, as a building, statue, or painting.

3.to bring back to a state of health, soundness, or vigor.

6.to reproduce or reconstruct (an ancient building, extinct animal, etc.) in the original state.

Note the last one. Would seem that reproduced items are exactly what restoration is about at times. Or should I start selling off my projects while they are still worth close to what I have invested?

[speedracer]

Competition modified (nonfactory, period) race motorcycles will be judged in a separate class with rules and awards unique to the class. The protocol for judging these important motorcycles is under development. Competition motorcycles restored to factory specifications will continue to be judged within their regular class as defined by year of manufacture.

Steve
does this mean I may as well leave all my competition bikes at home? they all have been modified by the original owners to fit their own style.
will you take back my winners circle on the one's that have already been judged??
I had planned on bringing some to Wauseon as that is the featured bike this year

[scd]

There will be no going backward on prior awards. You earned that award fair and square at the time. We are now focused on honoring "as raced" competition motorcycles with a new class. Whether we will have something up and running by Wauseon is uncertain, but it is definitely a top priority of mine. Stay tuned, we all love the competition modified (real) racers.

[speedracer]

There will be no going backward on prior awards. You earned that award fair and square at the time. We are now focused on honoring "as raced" competition motorcycles with a new class. Whether we will have something up and running by Wauseon is uncertain, but it is definitely a top priority of mine. Stay tuned, we all love the competition modified (real) racers.

so does this mean that the rumor I heard that they will no longer get the usual
JR, SR and WC awards is true or false

[scd]

Nothing has been finalized at this point, but in all likelihood the competition modified motorcycles will earn their own unique awards.

[Robin-M]

Hello Speedracer and all,

Yes, you are correct. You will not get the normal awards anymore if this New Judging Committee gets what they're after. They still don't have any set rules, but none of them understand period competition rules that pertains to these motorcycles, so rather than them learn the competition rules of the time periods that these machines are from, they basically want to classify them as a mere period modified with a basic award instead of our AMCA Jr 1, 2 and Senior and Winners Circle awards. When I was still part of the committee I tried to tell them in October that Kevin and I wanted to just add the word "Competition" to the engraved trophy plaque of the Jr 1, 2 and Senior, signifying that it is the competition class and it was judging differently. Some of the comments and arguments by some of the committee people, saying they don't understand the way these machines were judged, even after I explained in print, they still didn't understand. So it wonders me how they can judge the machines that some of them are marque experts on. Basically all of our competition bikes and the largest part of motorcycling history, they want to degrade to a period modified type class. Only because of their lack of experience, common sense and knowledge on these machines.

If this new committee gets accomplished what they want to do with the judging, we won't even recognize it. These people need to be stopped. With my experience, I can see what's happening, I can see what's going to happen, and they're destroying it. With past experiences with judging in the AMCA, I know how the membership feels about different rules, etc, and how they react. But, the new regime didn't want my experience, they want to run everything and that they will, they'll run it right into the ground. Out of everyone on the new committee, I know more than all of them put together.

So they take the most knowledgable person out of the equation, why, because I was told I don't work well on a team. Yes, I have it in print. Could it be that I have my own opinion and that the opinion is based on 30+ years of judging experience.

I know they're going to say I should take this to another thread, but this was one of the main complaints I had about the things they were doing, so far. The only competition motorcycles that will be allowed to win one of our regular trophies is one that is a factory bike eaxactly "how it left the factory". How many race bikes are "how they left the factory", not many. And if you're unlucky enough to have an Indian Sport Scout, the only one that will be eligible for our normal trophies will be the fifty 648 racers. Since THEY are the only factory production racer Sport Scouts that Indian produced.

Robin Markey

[Robin-M]

My previous message should read -

Out of all of them on the new committee, I know more than all of them put together on the competition bike rules.

Sorry!