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Thread: Monkey Business

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Central Illinois, USA
    Posts
    4,314

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    Good grief.
    Doesn't he watch the "Antiques Roadshow" with Gramma?

    Put it in a trust if his brain isn't ripe.

    Just my humble opinion.

    ...Cotten

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hummelstown, PA
    Posts
    901

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    Here is a case study on how our current standard for judging original bikes and the encouragement it offers to modify these machines through the reward of increased points (which in turn can lead to increased monetary gain ) could very well become a problem down the road. I will not mention any names or serials as I am not accusing anyone of anything fraudulent.

    Here is an early 51 pan as presented for judging where it was awarded it's Junior. Please note the Phillips screws around the entire perimeter of the D-ring.



    Here are two more 51's, several thousand units newer. Both currently winners circle machines. Again note the Phillips screws.





    Now here is that early 51 we looked at in the first example when it was awarded the Winners Circle. Note the Allen head screws as described in texts with a little oil on them for camouflage.



    Now here's the problem we have coming. Eventually some of these machines will change hands and have to start the judging process all over again. So we could very well have the two later production examples now coming back in for their Juniors while the altered earlier production machine resides in the Winners circle, with dust dried on its oiled replacement hardware and appearing quite legit. Now the two newer machines get docked for hardware. After all the book and the early production winners circle machine both clearly show Allens in these positions. So these owners change their machines, now we have three examples that have been altered solely because of our judging system. We reward people for making these changes with points. I personally find this very disheartening.

    After having watched the judging process much better the past three or four years I've started thinking that perhaps we need to judge these machines in a different manner from their restored counterparts.They are two completely different animals after all. To start, let's change the name from original to something like preservation class. I know, It's semantics but it does set a different overall tone doesn't it? Next perhaps instead of judging these machines for the technical accuracy of every tidbit like a restored machine we judge them on major component accuracy such as correct frame, motor , sheet metal combination and also on the degree of preservation. How well did it weather the years? Is it a nice example of that year? Is it clean and in decent enough repair to actually take a 30 mile ride on? things like that. This may discourage a lot of the tampering and help preserve these machines in whatever state they were found for future generations to enjoy and use as reference. Just my thoughts and observations.
    Brian Howard AMCA#5866

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,288

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    i'm outside philly pa. you can see the dear in the headlights look in his eyes.when you tell him but it's been 6 months now and untouched

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    England UK
    Posts
    143

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    Brian, see what you mean
    I own a machine 69 yrs old with character of ageing sheet metal /motor /trans/frame even most of the tidbits, but would never be seen under present judging
    due to the fact of a previous owner hand painted it a non stock color 30+ years back (even that has age worn look),i even know what it`s original color was as he never lifted the rear tail light when painting!

    So only way if ever to be judged is to strip down to restore, needs some frame repair work to both stands mountings etc so total lrestore from that reason seems easy justifiable?
    Tho i do have a nagging doubt, for some reason
    Last edited by kval; 09-20-2009 at 10:42 AM. Reason: more info

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    508

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    Greg H
    DON'T TOUCH THAT MACHINE!!!!
    we have allowed machines just like yours in as original, BUT you will get a 6 point hit for the repaint. this is done so people can still get to look at a good example of what the bike should be(except for paint).
    rember: you can restore 100's of times, but THEY ARE ORIGINAL ONLY ONCE!!
    Kevin



    Brian, see what you mean
    I own a machine 69 yrs old with character of ageing sheet metal /motor /trans/frame even most of the tidbits, but would never be seen under present judging
    due to the fact of a previous owner hand painted it a non stock color 30+ years back (even that has age worn look),i even know what it`s original color was as he never lifted the rear tail light when painting!

    So only way if ever to be judged is to strip down to restore, needs some frame repair work to both stands mountings etc so total lrestore from that reason seems easy justifiable?
    Tho i do have a nagging doubt, for some reason
    Last edited by kval; 09-20-2009 at 10:38 AM.
    Kevin Valentine 13
    EX-Chief Judge

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