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Thread: Monkey Business

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hummelstown, PA
    Posts
    901

    Default Monkey Business

    Alright, since were busy flogging the re-creationists in the thread next door, let's see what everyone thinks of this. As most know I have an affection ( or affliction ) for original early pans. when I see one I photograph it thoroughly. I will photograph every one I see and sometimes when I get home I see that I've re-photographed a bike. I've noticed the owners of these machines sometimes making changes on these machines, things mostly like hardware though sometimes much more. All in the quest to gain a better score. I believe most of the hardware changes I've noticed are because a judge believes that the original configuration was incorrect and the guy got docked for it when in fact other bikes of the same age all seem to show it was correct before it was changed. I realize that no one knows everything about any of these machines and judges make mistakes like the rest of us. But now we have an example of a machine that has been altered to fit someones idea of what it should be, forever erasing the record of what it was. I've also seen folks on the grounds busy with tool kits swapping out the parts from an original machine with stuff they just bought that morning, or installing accessories that the bike did not originally possess. So my question is, if one is changing parts or hardware on an original machine to gain points are they not in fact in the process of restoring said machine? Shouldn't an original machine that has notable changes made since it's prior judging be kicked into the restored class? Should any changes to an original machine between judging be tolerated? How does allowing people to change the originals that are left preserve history or help provide reference for those performing restorations on similar machines?
    Brian Howard AMCA#5866

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hummelstown, PA
    Posts
    901

    Default

    OK, 59 people read it and no one had anything to say. I guess everyone else is fine with removing most likely original straight slot screws and replacing them with Phillips simply to make the machine conform to something published or a photo of a prototype that may not truly represent actual production and to hell with what may have actually been original. So then let's just admit that we are an organization whose primary focus is show bikes with history running a distant second.
    Brian Howard AMCA#5866

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Posts
    4,157

    Default

    I will always remember my friend that lucked into a 1937 EL that was quite original. He tossed the ON/OFF oil guage because he thought it was from a tractor. I think you can attribute owner changes to ignorance, and I mean that with respect. I don't believe all of the mysteries of H-D, Indian, Hen/Ex ect. will be revealed but it's remarkable how much has been re-discovered and I think it will only improve in time. Many of the top judged bikes of 20 years ago would be lucky to get a Junior First today. That's why I have no worries about reproduction pioneer motorcycles being mistaken for genuine. In 20 years the real stuff will be well known and documented and the general knowledge in the AMCA should be considerably advanced.
    Eric Smith
    AMCA #886

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    High in the B.C. Rockies....
    Posts
    5,353

    Default

    Brian......I'm just getting to this post now and I have to say that I can see your point(s). I say leave history alone. If you only start with a pile of parts then do what you can with what you have. But I cringe at the thought of people tearing apart original machines even if they were adjusted somewhat along the way. Perhaps some folks get to focused on perfection and sacrifice history and soul for that perfect score on the card. Period photos are really the only true way to see what went on back in the day. Factory photos aren't even always reflective of what was put on the market. Just a thought. It would be nice to hear what the judges think.... Speak up folks...
    Cory Othen
    Membership#10953

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,284

    Default

    it's are american nature to demolish history and replace it with new look at the house in your town that was on main and broad st nice victorian. now it's a cvs.or walmart. wy should bikes be any different go from harley to ted

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Central Illinois, USA
    Posts
    4,275

    Default

    At risk of repeating myself:

    "Restoration has destroyed far more History than it shall ever preserve."

    ....Cotten

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Posts
    4,157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rwm View Post
    it's are american nature to demolish history and replace it with new look at the house in your town that was on main and broad st nice victorian. now it's a cvs.or walmart. wy should bikes be any different go from harley to ted
    That's the flip side of the American dream. We're a great and progressive country but we have so little respect or memory of the past, and, like Cotten said, restoration has it's evil side.. Fortuanately we are members of a club that is suppose to be dedicated to preserving the past. I guess we all need to be reminded of that now and then.
    Eric Smith
    AMCA #886

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,284

    Default

    i have a friend that got his fathers 62 vette (father is alive and well) just wanted to give his son the car 75.000 original miles last year power top, wonder bar radio, hub caps, all original paint a real beauty .not for bobby a vette needs to shine.he hasn't ruined it yet and maybe a few die hard post from you guys can help me stop him. but he has his eye on frame up restoration on the vette. he thinks that will put the car in it's glory and the way it should be. high gloss

  9. #9

    Default

    No, don't let him paint the 62 Vette. I would love to get it next to my 62 XLCH for some period shots.

    Anyway, to the greater discussion of this thread, Is it not the owners responsibility to prove the bike is correct, and the judge to respect that. We cannot expect the judges to know it all. So one should strive to present evidence that a screw is correct rather then replace it. A judge at the next meet might disagree with the first, and the same screw goes on and off at ever meet. If you prove it is correct, then it's done. I know this is harder said then done, but nobody said this was about easy.

    First time I had my CH judged, I was amazed by all they did not know, and watched them skip stuff that was wrong, and ding for stuff that was right. Next time I'll have the evidence to educate them(us) with.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    543

    Default

    get him in touch with the corvette museum or take him there for a visit if at all possible. the original paint vettes are worth about $75ooo more than restored ones. if he won't leave it alone for history's sake maybe he at least knows the value of a dollar. the car is worth more now than anything he can do to it even from a reputable shop. the only shop that will paint that car is one who knows nothing about corvettes. they will take his money but they will not improve the car. how far are you from bowling green? i'm about 45 minutes away

    http://www.corvettemuseum.com/

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