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Thread: Knuckle Jug Date Codes

  1. #11
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    I fully understand your point. If I ever get the bike judged, it will be more for the fun of it than anything else. I was at Rhinebeck this summer and ran into to a judge I know. He was out pressing the flesh with some of the vendors. I went up to talk to him but could see someone else was really bending his ear. I waited patiently to say hello. But this this guy was right on his back as he walked thru the tent and going over the points deductions for his bike from a previous meet. The guy was was polite, but just obsessive. Like one of those little dogs that grabs your pants leg and won't let go. The judge was very polite and patient with him while trying to see the vendor's display and escape at the same time. If I ever get like that, I'll start collecting doorknobs.
    Rob Sigond
    AMCA # 1811

  2. #12
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    [QUOTE=40 Nuck;68663]Thanks Chris,

    In answering one question, you may also have answered another that I have yet to get a good answer on ... model year changeover. Was June typically the model year changeover? I would've guessed Sept - Oct.

    The changeover was in the summer, usually June or July. Remember that the new models were on the showroom in Aug/Sept.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakeoil View Post
    I had to replace my rear jug. I found a NOS jug with a 1949 casting date. Henke said this would be fine since it would be feasible for a bike to have a later jug from a rebuild. The reverse is also feasible since a dealer could have had an older dated jug on his shelf for spares and used it to rebuild a later model. I was just happy to find a NOS jug.
    I haven't read the judging handbook recently and I'm a mere apprentice field judge, but I think the handbook is pretty clear. The standard the bike is being judged against is how it left the factory not how it left the dealer. A 47 would never have left the factory with a 49 dated barrel, so Chris is correct it could be docked at judging. That being said, the couple of times I've judged the team captain has never inspected the casting dates on anything ... Perry

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40 Nuck View Post
    Thanks Chris,

    In answering one question, you may also have answered another that I have yet to get a good answer on ... model year changeover. Was June typically the model year changeover? I would've guessed Sept - Oct.
    Certainly in recent times (since the 70s or 80s) the factory has had the new models ready in August for Sturgis. But back in the 40s or 50s I think you're right. New models didn't hit the dealers before mid September at the earliest. I base this on a couple things. First the dates of the factory to dealer new model information (and this mailing usually included the new model order forms). I know the dates of two of these. For the 1940 models the new models News Bulletin was dated Sept. 5 1939 (see attached scan). For the 1950 models the News Bulletin was dated August 29 1949. So the earliest the dealer would have known about the new models or had order forms was early September. Second, and unfortunately I can't put my finger on it, I'm sure I read in a Hatfield book (a historian whose research I trust) that the factory shut down for the last week of August for changeover. Maybe someone else knows where that is written ... Perry
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    Last edited by Perry Ruiter; 12-01-2008 at 02:35 AM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Ruiter View Post
    I haven't read the judging handbook recently and I'm a mere apprentice field judge, but I think the handbook is pretty clear. The standard the bike is being judged against is how it left the factory not how it left the dealer. A 47 would never have left the factory with a 49 dated barrel, so Chris is correct it could be docked at judging. That being said, the couple of times I've judged the team captain has never inspected the casting dates on anything ... Perry
    A early '47 certainly could have left with a '46 dated jug. But honestly, When you are judging there aren't enough judges to spend the half hour - forty five minutes necessary to do a complete nit picking judgement of every bike in the show. Do we have mirrors to check the date codes on transmissions? How many judges know everything about every bike they are judging? I know I don't. Lots of things get by. You just do the best job that you can.
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  6. #16
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    [QUOTE=40 Nuck;68663]Thanks Chris,

    In answering one question, you may also have answered another that I have yet to get a good answer on ... model year changeover. Was June typically the model year changeover? I would've guessed Sept - Oct. The reason this is important to me is that given my serial number, I would've thought a late 1939 date code would be appropriate. If the model year changeover was typically in June, however, maybe a mid-year date code would be best. My transmission is not original to my bike, but my engine, frame, heads, springer, cylinders are consistent. It seems that if we knew typical monthly production and model-year changeover, we could reasonably estimate the "birth-month" of our bikes.

    The year model changeover got earlier as years went by. I can remember going to York a few years ago in June. The tour was shut down because they were in changeover mode.
    Let's say your 1940 has one G 9 and one H 9 rocker box. Add to this an E 9 transmission case with a G 9 lid and an H 9 kicker. Your low number engine cases may have one side an G and the other side a H. These are the dates the part was cast. Not the date the motorcycle was built. I have never seen a bike where all the date codes were an exact match.


    I remember the AMF days of the warehouse in the sky at York. Hundreds of engines and transmissions hanging from a steadily moving conveyer belt traveling back and forth across the ceiling of the plant. I watched the worker while he was plucking engines from this never ending line of engines. Not all engines were the same. Some bare and others black. Color coded tags on the engine told what model bike it was for at a glance. He would wait till the appropriate color tag engine came by a grabbed it. No particular order. I am sure that engines could stay up there for days or even weeks before being selected.
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  7. #17
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    This is a great thread. Love reading all the info that has been shared here. Does anyone happen to have a 1947 new models brochure. Would love to have a copy, scanned or otherwise for my bike.
    Thanks,
    Rob Sigond
    AMCA # 1811

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakeoil View Post
    This is a great thread. Love reading all the info that has been shared here. Does anyone happen to have a 1947 new models brochure. Would love to have a copy, scanned or otherwise for my bike.
    Thanks,
    Reprints of these brochures appear on eBay regularly.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakeoil View Post
    This is a great thread. Love reading all the info that has been shared here. Does anyone happen to have a 1947 new models brochure. Would love to have a copy, scanned or otherwise for my bike.
    Thanks,
    There's one on eBay right now. Go nuts ... Perry

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
    Sure it will be fine, untill you find a judge who needs to nit pick.
    Yes, and I have been on the end of that one before................Mr. Haynes.

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