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Thread: equipment groups

  1. #21
    bmh Guest

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    Yeah I figuire this to be a parts book error also. I am also aware of the comercial artists role in H-D's advertising as well as a good few prototypes aren't real representations of what was done on the line. I've been mainly trying to use original period photos of biikes in service. But it is very hard to find good quality photos of other than police models. these seem to be better documented than civilian bikes for some reason or another. They are still full of valuable info, so long as you know what the differences are.
    Brian

  2. #22
    SRG Guest

    Default 1951 correctness

    What a great bunch of threads! I noticed there was no mention of Bruce Palmer's book. I'm doing a 1951 EL and I'm using his book as a guide. Palmer uses the quote from the dealers order book: "All new motorcycles are shipped from the factory with one of these equipment groups"., this does not apply to Servi-cars, sidecars, or package trucks. "Most items listed in the below equipment groups can be ordered separately in addition to a group at an extra charge". These qoutes open a whole world of possibilities to me. I hope I run into some of you guys \ gals at the meets.
    SRG

  3. #23
    bmh Guest

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    Welcome to a fellow 51 EL, there's not many of us. Is yours early or late? Palmers is a great resource, but it is still up to the restorer to determine what is absolutly correct for their particular machine. Most of the info is solid and correct, but there are errors ( nobody could compile that much info on so many years and modles without making a few) and omissions . The judges handbook states that it is only to be used as reference up to the point it is known to be correct.
    As for options and such. All motorcycles were shipped with an equipment group. This was kinda bait and switch, the low price you saw in the add was for a bike that had to be purchased with an "Options" package. Just as today , it's all marketing. All the items in the groups and a few not listed as well were available for purchase "A LA CARTE" as listed on the reverse of the order blank. Although I wouldn't go crazy with this. It only stands to reason that if the price of the 10 doo-dads you want totaled more than the equipment group, a guy back in the time would've purchased the group.
    Brian

  4. #24
    servicardenise Guest

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    Hey Guys, If I am not mistaken they would offer some stuff that you could purchase from the dealer like the Roy bike in Sharon Pa. It had yellow rubber grips as well as other yellow rubber stuff. When Don Wrench had it judged he provided the original owners paperwork from the dealer. I was surprised at all the doo dads and gee gaws the dealer would add on. I also believe that dealers would add any paint prior to that year as an available option. I don't know what book there is that covers all these lovely little details but it does add to the fun and mystery of these projects. Also, I think it teaches us to never appear to act like we know anything for sure. Being wrong is sometimes the best way to learn. Merry Christmas, Denise

  5. #25
    bmh Guest

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    Yes , that is true. I've run across lots of old pictures showing all kinds of chrome plated parts on brand new machines that the factory wouldn't offer for years to come. I beleive that some of the larger dealers were doing a nice chrome exchange biz and of course that would mean new bikes on the floor already trimmed out. Funny, the more things change, the more they remain the same. And a Merry Christmas to you also.
    Brian

  6. #26
    Paquette Guest

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    Just to throw in a cent and a halfs worth. When I visited the Harley Archive in Milwaukee ( that is where the bikes that will be in the new museum are stored) I was told that if a guy came in on Monday morning, started assembling a bike and ran out of say cad plated bolts and the stock room had only parkerized in stock, that is what he would use to finish that bike and the rest down the line that week. Their statement basicly was the bike that came out on Monday might not be the same, hardware wise, as the same model that came out on Friday. It was (and is) all about getting product out the door to the dealer. That is why the archive does not like to give out info on what is or is not correct. I am really looking forward to the opening of the museum but I think we all need to be very carefull about using the bikes in the collection as drop dead. that's it, documentation for restorations----PAQ

  7. #27
    exeric Guest

    Default

    I agree with you Paquette, but you can see the dilema that judges in the AMCA have. I guess as an AMCA judge, you have to take a consensus view of a specific year and model of motorcycle and judge it on what parts are generally considered correct. I'm sure the factory mixed things up and made running changes based on part availability but if a part is generally considered to be cadmium plated and not parkerized then I think the AMCA judge needs to err to the side of consensus and say that part is suppose to be cad plated.

  8. #28
    bmh Guest

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    Yes , the hardware thing is a bit troublesome at times. Any one needing proof of assembly line substitutions only need start looking at the jamb nut on the handshift rod in old photos. Most times it's cad but quite often its parkerized. I think this was the only place on a big twin where a 7752 nut in cad is used ( actually 7753 is the correct Part # as all 7752 were parkerized) This seems to have been a common shortage , especially during high production years. So why do the parts books list it as 7752 not the 7753 that was supposed to be used? Parts books were published for maintanence not assembly. Dealers didn't order just one or two nuts, I think they had to buy a box. So to make it easier for a dealer to stock service parts Only the most readilly available parts are listed . Thats why everything in the book seems to be parkerized, while period photos clearly show cad. I've been having a blast learning and figuiring all this out, and it's nice to converse with others who are interested in these little things. Most people I know could care less if a nut is cad plate or parkerized ( couldn't you get that in chrome???)
    Brian

  9. #29
    portagepan Guest

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    So, if you have a completely original bike, but it doesn't fit the consensus, it isn't right? Say it ain't so, Joe! I'm glad somebody besides me has to figure this all out. Since there are so many opinions, and lists, how DO you? You almost have to have a list of all possible options, and variations, and let it roll. I give a lot of credit to you guys and gals that try to restore, or keep a bike just so, for points judging. I'm just one of the ones that when I get it 99%, I'm happy. Of course, I am always open to new knowledge, and advice, and anything I learn I am glad to pass along. I guess that is part of what the club is all about. Merry Christmas!
    Mike

  10. #30
    Paquette Guest

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    The best answer I can give is that The Motor Company never has an inkling that there would be folks out there like us, that give a tinker's damn about what is or is not correct!! As with my own research on seats, saddlebags, and related accessories I have copies of most of the original production drawing from 1941 --1970. I have also seen, held, measured, and restored most of the seats and saddlebags that Harley ( Milsco) has produced since 1933. What the drawings state and how they were actually produced often are different animals. The guys on the line made things easy for themselves to produce a product that for all intents and purposes looked like the drawing . But in the real world of production, engineers and designers don't know SQUAT. Employees in the old days ( and probably still today) look at the drawings and just make stuff work!!!---PAQ

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