Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 31

Thread: equipment groups

  1. #1
    bmh Guest

    Default equipment groups

    I 've read the judges handbook and I think I already Know the answer to this question, but I would rather be absolutly sure now, rather than disassemble and refinish parts later. I find the Utilty group for my year to be too plain, yet I think the sport group is a little too glitzy.If I were buying this bike brand new in the year it was made , I would've ordered a utility with some options from the sport group. According to all souces I can find I could've done that. Now the question....... If I restore the bike to these specifications would it affect the score compared to staying totaly with one group or the other ?
    Thanks, Brian

  2. #2
    exeric Guest

    Default

    Brian, I'll bet you're referring to 1951 Harley's. It's my opinion that if the parts are of the correct year and finish then you're okay. It's my belief that most H-Ds have been bought off the showroom floor and not ordered from the factory. The dealer used the order blanks and bought "option groups" from the factory based on what he knew about his customers and what he knew he could sell. Once the dealer had a fish on the line he could start encouraging the customer to buy saddle bags, a buddy seat, and chrome, chrome, chrome. It's no different today. From the dealer's point of view, it would be difficult to sell a base model because they were so plain, or a heavily optioned model becuase it would be expensive and not to everyone's taste. Models in the middle are what they ordered.

    I understand your concerns because I feel exactly the same way. I plan to mix it up a bit on my '51 because there are some features I like and some that go over the top.

    I have a friend in Orlando that has a 1944 Knucklehead that was bought from Puckett's H-D in Orlando. My friend is the second owner and got it a number of years ago. The story is, the original owner was a mailman with a rural delivery route. He qualified as someone entitled to purchase a new vehicle and ordered his Harley from the factory, through Puckett Motors. When it arrived he was shocked to see a plain, no frills motorcycle. He told Louis Puckett that he hated it, didn't want it, and wanted his money back. To make his customer happy, Louis produced a pre-war chrome package (at additional cost) and that clinched the deal. Now I believe this story but if I was judging this bike I would have to deduct points for incorrect finish because H-D didn't offer chrome option groups for '44 FL's, and my friend has no documentation to support his story. I'm sorry for going on and on but I was in a typing mood and I wanted to work this '44 FL story in.

  3. #3
    bmh Guest

    Default

    Yes I am in the year of 51. I am thinking of doing something along the lines of what a messenger service type of bike would have looked like. Like a bank or messenger service may have used. I'm thinking something nicer than a utilty or police bike but not as fancey or expensive as a solo sport. Basically a base bike with rubber mount bars, polished front end,chrome exhaust covers & a basic black luggage rack. All other parts would be of the correct type and finish for the base model .So how would this be veiwed by the judges? Would deductions be made for all the parts that were lacking to make it a solo sport? I have not yet found an authentic photo to base this on, but I'm relativley sure that machines like this were still being sold at this time for these type of uses. Although I do admit this would be about the end of these machines as their jobs were quickly being taken by autos.
    Brian

  4. #4
    servicardenise Guest

    Default

    I think that if you had a package that was more glitzy, you would want to be consistent with the package. If you only have part of the items glitzy and others that are not, then it would not be something that you would buy from the dealer. I think the idea being what did the dealers offer to the consumer when they purchased the bike. If you are going with a package, try to correctly reproduce what was available. When you mix it up you may have deductions. Denise

  5. #5
    Erdos Guest

    Default

    I have never heard the subject of packages come up in judging. If the finishes are correct for the year I think you will be fine. I have a winners circle 1947wl that is basically the utility model with crash guards, deluxe solo saddle, foot peddels. I didn't like the special solo chrome headlight or fender tips. Not once in the many times that I have had it judged or with any of the bikes I have judged has the issue of the equipment groups come up. Do it like you want. I you loose points in judging you can always change it later.

  6. #6
    exeric Guest

    Default

    Brian, your concept of the '51 you would like to build is very similar to what I have been thinking of for my '51. I have given some thought to doing the very basic "utility" model but aside from police use, I don't think H-D sold many utility models to the general public, it's just too plain. I have talked to a lot of older riders who bought new bikes after the war and they all wanted as much chrome as they could get. I have never liked an over accessorized or over chromed motorcycle so I would never do a bike like that, but conversly, I don't think a minimalist motorcycle like the utility model is representative of what people were riding in 1951.

    I have been trying to decide on what I would like chromed and what should default to the black (cheap) painted part. I like the black Guide tail light, black safety bars, and am wondering about Black painted wheels. What are your thoughts Brian.

  7. #7
    bmh Guest

    Default

    While I agree that , as today, most bikes were sold off the floor and not ordrerd. since mine is an EL I wonder how many El 's were sold that way ? not many were sold at all that year and I'd bet the majority of those went to police use. So who was the customer? Seems to me that if you had pockets of cash for chrome and fringes you most likely had the extra $15 for an FL . Just as today, bigger gotta be better.
    I knew an old guy years back who bought a new EL in 48 or 50 and he said that was the best running machine he ever owned, always lamented it was the one he should've kept.that is most likely what stuck somewhere in the back of my head and inspired this project. I know he was just a poor farm boy back than
    and didn't have a lot of money. he also said the El's were better for gettin around on the country roads than their bigger sisters. Unfortunatly he's not around any more so I will have to do without all the help he would've given. In the end I guess I'll just put her together to be the motorcycle someone like Jay would've bought, simply cause that will make me happiest. I do want to see the project do well as far as being judged, thats why I was curious about how the judges veiw things.
    Thanks all, Brian


    P.S. if anyone has a photo from the early 50's showing a plain jane in use on the street I would love to have a copy. Thanks again

  8. #8
    exeric Guest

    Default

    I have "Enthusiast", and "Motorcyclist" magazines from 1951 which for some stupid reason I have not been looking at. I'll dig through those this weekend and see what turns up.

    Your friend was right about 61's. I had a '37 and '41 EL and I have to say that as an all around motorcycle they are probably superior to the 74. I was always impressed by the extra "quickness" they seemed to have and yet could do anything a 74 could do. Like anything a person loves, we probably imbue the objects of our affection with attributes they didn't really have. Also, time has a way of healing the pain which I remember those bikes dishing out in copious amounts. But I sure wish I had them today.

  9. #9
    servicardenise Guest

    Default

    I think that I should clarify what I meant by packages, you would get the chrome dash with other chrome items. If you have the dash black, then that tail light would be black. I think you call that utility and sport. I just remember that the chrome went with chrome and the black went with black. I am not sure what you want to stick with but I don't think that it was mixed up. I am not the utmost authority and may be wrong but I might be right. Sometimes this can be learned best by judging and listening to people who know.
    I know that it has been discussed during judging. Walt Curro, Bruce Linsday or Dan Henke are the Harley guys, maybe contact them. Denise

  10. #10
    bmh Guest

    Default

    Thanks. I plan to go to Jefferson in oct. and get as good a look as I can at the judging process, and ask a few questions too. This is one aspect of old bikes I never paid much attention too, other than what the score card said needed changed.
    Also would either of you know someone who has expertise in the correct finsh on hardware. I seem to have found some discrepencies between the parts book and factory photos, and would like someone who knows these things to help me sort it out.
    Brian

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •