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Thread: equipment groups

  1. #11
    VPH-D Guest


    I would think that dealers would order more chromed-up models simply because there was more profit margin in them. The guy I worked for never ordered any stripped models [FLHS] for this reason, and because we feared not being able to sell them.

    BTW, my 51 is coming apart this winter for stock paint, black rims, safety guards, and painted dash. I'm liking the austere look!

  2. #12
    Glenn Guest

    Default to packeage or not to package

    I went to the harley traveling museum and looked at the 50 pan on display and compared to the one I just bought and it looks almost the same. I wonder once the harley in 2008 open the museum for the 2008 celebration if that would help everyone. I did take a lot of pictures of the left side of the 50 if anyone needs them


  3. #13
    bmh Guest


    Would definetly be interested in some photos. seems like a few people think as I do on the matter of what looks pleasing . It brings me to question though , are we to preserve history or prserve our version of it? I suppose this question has plauged many through time who have endeavored to catolog and preserve artifacts. OK enough philosiphy.

  4. #14
    servicardenise Guest


    Dan Henke, Bruce Linsday, and Walt Curro are the Harley people. From my experience while judging with them, you could order a paint available prior to the year of the bike. I think that the war years weren't that way but if you are doing a 1951 it should be any color that was a Harley color prior to and including 1951.

  5. #15
    servicardenise Guest


    I thought you asked about paint. Sorry, I think the Niccad was used and that's short for nickle cadmium like for the screws and bolts. I believe the exhaust clamps were parkerized. I think the battery wing nuts were niccad also. A phone call to those people I mentioned would help you greatly. If you do call them let me know what they said. I haven't gotten to judge in a few years. Wauseon was always the meet to judge for me and now I am not able to because I oversee things.

  6. #16
    bmh Guest


    Thanks Denise, I'll see if I can't get ahold of one of those gentlemen.

  7. #17
    schmittm Guest


    Hi everyone, quite a thread you have going here. I thought I'd jump in and add to the confusion.

    I had the opportunity and pleasure of being part of the post-war Harley judging team at Davenport this year and I probably learned more than I contributed. I will not present myself as an authority or speak for any of the other judges, I'll just throw a few observations out here that relate to the issues in this thread.

    Equipment groups and packages, as a whole, are not judged as a unique criteria. If you look at the National Meet Judging Form you will not find separate categories for equipment groups or accessories. The pieces and parts that were available as individual optional items, from the factory or the dealer, are logically included as a component of one of the 25 named categories on the form and are evaluated along with the other items in that category. The same 3 considerations apply to components of an equipment group that apply to any other part on the bike:
    1. Was the part commonly available during, or prior to, the production year. Does the part belong on the bike?, common sense prevails on some equipment group items; you wouldn't have a foot siren on a civilian solo model, etc.
    2. Is the part correctly finished. When parts were offered in several different finishes (chrome or painted rims for example), any of the available finishes are acceptable as long as its consistent with similar parts on the same bike. (you wouldn't have one chrome and one black rim)
    3. Is the part installed properly with the correct fasteners.

    Category #5 Nuts/Bolts/Mounting Hardware. The fastest way to lose points is to use cheap modern hardware from the bin at the local home supply center. After WWII the factory bought most of the hardware from Chandler Products in Ohio. If you assemble your bike using "CP" headstamped bolts of the correct dimensions, thread pitch, and finish you can't hardly go wrong. If you are not absolutely certain that the original was cadmium go with parkerized. Here again, be consistent, do not mix and match in sets of the same application. (don't put zinc lock washers under parkerized nuts or cad nuts on parkerized bolts, it sticks out like a sore thumb!) I know, I'm preaching to the choir, enough said.

    Of course there are always exceptions to the general rule. If you identify the specific model of your bike by displaying the model name with a piece of trim or decal, then all of the items which make that model unique should be present on the bike. For Example, bikes with "Deluxe" trim badges on the front fender should have all the items listed in the dealer brochure which actually made it a Deluxe, or bikes displaying FLH decals should be equiped with everything that set them apart from the FL's.

    I got a little windy, its raining today and I was bored......sorry


  8. #18
    Glenn Guest

    Default great

    that was great info on what to do. as I am about to embark on my 1950 pan and 1946 ford truck at almost the same time I look forward to all the help this great site has been and will be to my project.

    moose aka glenn

  9. #19
    bmh Guest


    thanks mike,
    That was my take reading the judges hanbook, But I would rather be sure now than sorry later.
    As far as hardware goes.... My on going research in early pans has turned up some iteresting points. For example lets take the exhaust clamp (the one at the ex. port) Bolt 3791, washer7040, nut 7676.
    Nut 7676 is listed on the hardware list as cad, bolt 3791 is only used at this location until 52 where it is also used as a pinch bolt for the foot shift lever, and then in54 also to mount the horn power pack. It appears this bolt may have been parkerized for the 48 modles but seems to switch to cad in 49 and is definetly cad by 54.
    Washer 7040 ( here's where it gets interesting) is used all over the bike in locals we know to be parkerized, such as under the 4000 bolt used for the lower tank mounts, wich are visible in old photos. We know the factory didn't buy one box of the same # washer in a different finish and make sure that only that one guy used it in one place only. Yet I tend to agree with you that this would not seem corect. Is the parts book wrong? wouldn't be the first correction in one of mine. Perhaps they used washer 7041 wich is the same washer only in " ZINK"? This washer is also on the hardware list but I have not yet been able to find it used anywhere in the parts book. Any body have any thoughts? I have one or two more if you like this riddle.

  10. #20
    schmittm Guest


    Great research Brian!

    Have you ever noticed that if you mix the letters around in brian you get BRAIN? (sorry, I just heard that in a Sonic commercial, I had to throw it out there)

    The original period parts books are probably our best references, especially for hardware. When I find inconsistencies for some of the parts, as you have so well documented, I have to remind myself that those books where mostly for replacement parts and did not always represent what the assemblers had on hand at the factory. Some of the stuff that the Motor Company supplied to the dealers may not have been exactly what was used during manufacturing, simply a suitable replacement. If running changes were made from year to year they got what was in current production.

    I still believe that consistency is the safe bet. The more things blend in the less likely they are to draw scrutany.

    Remember that the factory photos are not always a good example of what actually went to the dealers. Many were retouched airbrushed photos of previous year models.

    Something I forgot to mention earlier about equipment groups is the fact that some of the VIN #'s and engine serial numbers contain codes that specify certain equipment. For example, if your VIN indicates a foot shift model the bike should not show with a hand shift, same for "H" models; they should have the trim and decals designating that.

    keep digging in those old books, most of the answers are there!


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