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Steve Little
11-04-2015, 06:49 PM
The top plate is 3/4" wash ground plate and the other piece is a scrap block of alloy.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/002_zpstce667du.jpg

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/001_zpslz3siowj.jpg

The dowel is coated with red texta. I use it as an edge finder.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/010_zpss3lkwjgw.jpg

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/011_zps6hedo9ah.jpg

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/012_zpsg0aqvcwf.jpg

exeric
11-04-2015, 07:27 PM
That is the nicest 4 hole, slotted hunk of steel I have seen today:)

I never thought of making one myself, but I do have a motor to do in the near future. You are always an inspiration Steve.

Steve Little
11-04-2015, 08:23 PM
Thanks Eric. Nice to hear from you.
There are times I think about posting some work I am doing, but once I'm up to work speed and concentration, it's distracting to slow down for pictures.
You and I have mentioned in the past that the forum needs a shot in the bum.
Here's a 10 cc of Australian git it dun.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/014_zpsnpdwt1u4.jpg

I had to take a cut off the side for clearance for the lifter block. Maybe another cut at some time in the future. But a miss is a miss.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/013_zpshuoxfd7o.jpg

Some nice washers to stop the nuts from leaving a burr on the nice new tool. I used a wet stone to take the manufacturing burrs off the bottom edge of the washers.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/027_zpsiynglgkl.jpg

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/028_zpsr6kgiy6y.jpg

painterdale
11-04-2015, 08:40 PM
I agree with Eric, Steve. I enjoy seeing what you got goin' on, too! Dale

Steve Little
11-04-2015, 09:09 PM
http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/030_zpsl4drgl3r.jpg

Need to machine out the radius in the angle iron to allow it them to sit flat on the plate.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/029_zps7znifnbd.jpg

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/031_zpsppfhfn6h.jpg

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/033_zps2cxymlyg.jpg

They sit nice and snug now. I added some pinch bolts on the side.
Doesn't look like I took pictures of that sequence. I was probably on auto pilot during that stage.
The angle iron buffer function will become evident in later posts.
Apollogies for galloping along. I would have liked to have added these shots in a slower progression to give the forum a bit of continued interest.
But wife is dragging me out of my work shop and making me go on a holiday in two days.
My protestations of : (Honestly, I'm relaxed here. I like my workshop)... didn't work.
She's dragging me onto a 12 meter catamaran to sail around the Whitsunday islands for two weeks.
I'll post the rest of the job tomorrow.

fillibuster
11-05-2015, 05:47 AM
So I expect you're getting up at 4 am, slurping coffee, and keyboarding this thread (while she sleeps?), so's we don't die of suspense wondering what the heck?.....
I love fixtures, and tooling up. (this should be in custom tools thread?) It has always seemed so archaic to have extra hands on standby for landing cylinders while the blind guy with arthritic fingers did the lost-and-found thing with the keepers.
May I presume that the plate/clamps are for steadying the rods while the hovering cylinder/piston heads for home?
This after tweaking the rods?
More, more, now, now!

Tommo
11-05-2015, 12:50 PM
Looks like a copy of the HD fixtures for straightening con-rods to me

Steve Little
11-05-2015, 06:11 PM
Thanks guys.
Fitment to front cylinder deck. Check!

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/034_zpsicon7p72.jpg

Machined a pocket in the middle of the plate to allow the hole of the little end bush to come down level with the plate.
The front cylinder checked out good. The rear cylinder... not so good. 019" out.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/001_zps1inhrnfm.jpg

I needed a better - professional tool than I have been using over the years. To date, my conrod alignment tool has been a 2' shifter.

Milled the edges of the piece of scrap alloy to square it up.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/003_zpsedokiavz.jpg

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/005_zpsknewqe0d.jpg

Then cut it in half.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/007_zpshrqiulz3.jpg

Steve Little
11-05-2015, 06:26 PM
Ran the mill over the pair to match them up. And then clamped them on top of each other to drill and tap them together.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/008_zpshyhkdegd.jpg

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/017_zps2u9jwutc.jpg

Once that was done it needed a slot cut all the way through.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/021_zps0dhoh6kq.jpg

And a hole in the end

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/020_zpsvbc7opia.jpg

Steve Little
11-05-2015, 06:56 PM
Needed a handle so I used a bit of 1 3/16 alloy round bar.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/022_zpss43ti0ut.jpg

Test run on a 46 FL Knuckle fly worked perfect. The story behind these flywheels, I bought a 1946 Knuckle bottom end thinking it was just original.
The rods had been polished, it had lightning gears and a 36 cam shaft. I guess it was someones hot rod back in the day. Any way. My tool worked good on the sacrificial rod.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p670/RaceFrame/023_zpskl8mnzdn.jpg

Hi Thomo.
I didn't know H.D made a tool tool like this. I've seen a rod holding tool in the service book, which stops the flywheels from rotating.
I've also seen the tool that slides into the wrist pin bush to straighten rods.
I didnt like the idea of the wrist pin tool.
The angle iron parts of my jig are used to wedge hard against the rod before trying to bend them. This takes the load off the flywheel and stops any misalignment. After correcting the rear rod of my engine, I put a dial indicator on the end of my pinion shaft. It has a run out of 001" so I am happy to call the tool a success.
I look forward to reading the work of someone else.
Message to the Mod Squad, please push some buttons and throw some switches and move this thread to "Custom tools". Appologies.
Gotta go pack my bag
Regards Steve

T. Cotten
11-05-2015, 06:59 PM
Too much time on your hands, Steve!

Most of cut to the chase with a welder and a 4" grinder (attached).

Please tell me you are not going to attempt to straighten rods assembled.

....Cotten

Steve Little
11-05-2015, 07:25 PM
Too much time on your hands, Steve!

Most of cut to the chase with a welder and a 4" grinder (attached).

Please tell me you are not going to attempt to straighten rods assembled.

....Cotten

Hi Cotton.
Nice to see you contributing.
Yes is the answer to first accusation.
I've got many tools like yours. Thanks for contributing your style of tool.
For your last query... already done the job. See previous thread and description.
Angle iron sleeves are snugged up tight against the rod and help to alleviate stress on the flywheel.
001" on the end of the pinion is acceptable.

Any chance you can use your vast knowledge on DC carburetors and have a look at that thread xlr under Sportster. I am hoping you can confirm needle and seat question.

Regards Steve

fillibuster
11-05-2015, 08:38 PM
Too much time on your hands, Steve!

Most of cut to the chase with a welder and a 4" grinder (attached).

Please tell me you are not going to attempt to straighten rods assembled.

....Cotten

my first jig looked like Cotten's, but eventually I salvaged some 1 1/4" key stock, cut 2 pcs about 4 1/2" long and drilled them to base stud spacing. This makes a good deck for the wrist pin check, and is reliable also for checking the rod's left-to-right throughout the stroke.
I usually use 2 tweak bars to keep the stress off the thrust washers, but the shop that does my top ends employs a harley-guy who does very good work on a rod alignment tool. It's important that the guy gives a dam. Last engine needed no tweaking at all.

Tommo
11-06-2015, 01:54 AM
Here's a photo of my two HD factory ones.
The smaller one is for the 1926 on singles and the other is the big twin one.
Somewhere I've got the instruction sheet for them but I can't lay my hands on it right now but I'll keep looking

T. Cotten
11-06-2015, 11:35 AM
I'll admit Folks,

I've tweaked rods assembled and got away with it,
But after observing the behavior of the races of the female rod while straightening and gauging bend and twist on the bench (attached), I'm afraid it carries too much risk to advocate.

And please remember that aligning by the decks (attached) can add significant error from the original axis, as I found while replacing a wristpin bushing on previously blue-printed rods.
(That's what my tool was for...)
It becomes a question of: Do you want the piston square to the decks, or to the rods, if they are not square to each other?

The service manual suggestions of the past were 'field' operations for utilitarian machines, whereas the machines are now a great deal more precious. One must weigh what is at risk, against the benefits of a shortcut.

My opinion only,

....Cotten
PS: Steve!
DCs have never needed me much, so I haven't studied them. (Plus, I didn't want to get into that yellow anodizing or whatever.) But I have photos of more un-identified valves if you want me to add to the confusion.

exeric
11-06-2015, 01:29 PM
Good points on rod accuracy Tom. Your last picture says it all.

fillibuster
11-06-2015, 01:34 PM
Cotten, my key stocks are used like your beams are, but to be sure, let's confirm that we are checking that clearance with the crankshaft at both 4:30 (of the clock) and 7:30 (approximations). This helps indicate a twist vs a bend. If the right hand side is lower than left at 4:30 but higher at 7:30 we have a twist. If right hand side is comparable at both positions we have a bend. A consistent zero-clearance on both sides of the rod shows straightness.

fillibuster
11-06-2015, 01:42 PM
Tom, I would like to read your comments on the ill effects you have experienced, such as on the spindly Indian forked rod.
I have a bar that you'd throw in the scrap pile, a wrist pin with two handles welded to it. I don't use it much anymore, but got a lot of miles out of its results.

T. Cotten
11-06-2015, 03:59 PM
Filibuster!

The problem is obvious in that the races "splay" askew when the rod is forced. I guess the proper words to describe it elude me, but the point is that you can quickly get a bind.
Even stout H-D rods will 'move', even if you do not notice for a while.

I have my Indian female rod bench fixture to photograph, but health issues are in my way again....

Measuring from ancient and variable decks can only give us clues.
Assuming the decks happen to be perfectly square (more likely for a milwaukee machine than Springfield's, I suspect..), bend is obvious when there is a difference from left to right.
Twist would certainly increase the difference, but if it happens that there is no bend, shouldn't the pin still come down square to the deck at any degree of rotation, or 'time o'clock'?

You didn't really tweak directly upon the wristpin bushing, did you?
My bar punishes the beam only (attached). But I preferred other torture devices.

...Cotten

Steve Little
11-06-2015, 05:33 PM
Here's a photo of my two HD factory ones.
The smaller one is for the 1926 on singles and the other is the big twin one.
Somewhere I've got the instruction sheet for them but I can't lay my hands on it right now but I'll keep looking

Hi Thommo. Neat set of tools. Are you suggesting theres a picture of the Big Twin plate in the service manual? I thought tI was making a tool that didn't exist... more a melded design from two different HD tools, but maybe I've been driven by subliminal prompting.
I'll have to re read my Knuck and Pan service manuals.
Wife did suggest to take a book or two. Maybe a couple of service manuals stuffed into the bottom of my bag for some light reading. :)

fillibuster
11-06-2015, 10:36 PM
Filibuster!

The problem is obvious in that the races "splay" askew when the rod is forced. I guess the proper words to describe it elude me, but the point is that you can quickly get a bind.
Even stout H-D rods will 'move', even if you do not notice for a while.

Okay on that, Tom, but I'm a bit suspicious. But the later Chiefs appear heavy enough in the low end to assure that any "give" would be in the beam.



I have my Indian female rod bench fixture to photograph, but health issues are in my way again....

Measuring from ancient and variable decks can only give us clues.
Assuming the decks happen to be perfectly square (more likely for a milwaukee machine than Springfield's, I suspect..), bend is obvious when there is a difference from left to right.
Twist would certainly increase the difference, but if it happens that there is no bend, shouldn't the pin still come down square to the deck at any degree of rotation, or 'time o'clock'?

It's checking in both positions, of course, that confirms twist vs bend. Twist a straight rod, then, in your mind. One end of the wrist pin hits the deck (key stock blocks for me) at 4:30, the other end of the wrist pin hits the deck at 7:30. .... and I like to get the "rock" out of the decks before we get to this stage. I do like Steve's plate for that.

You didn't really tweak directly upon the wristpin bushing, did you?
My bar punishes the beam only (attached). But I preferred other torture devices.

...Cotten

Yeah, I tortured the wrist pin bushing, Tom, but that was a long time ago. .. Say, if the rod was bent, what made it that way? birth? or a seized piston? or what? Did the piston exert force through the wrist pin and then the bushing? So what are we now trying to protect?

Tommo
11-07-2015, 01:22 AM
Here's how HD told you to align rods using their surface plate and Cotton it's not how I would do it or advise anyone else to do it.

T. Cotten
11-07-2015, 03:39 PM
Sorry for a late reply Filibuster...

It was a blue-printed "late" Chief rod that would no longer accept the crankpin and rollers after a 'conventional' tweaking.
You can't straighten a rod for bend or twist until races and bushing are fitted, as those operations add error, and the massage made things move.

So I conjured an expandable collet to hold the female rod in a press to keep the races firm while punished (attached).

Bend and twist are a lot more manageable than an offset, which is even more difficult to detect while assembled.

....Cotten

fillibuster
11-08-2015, 07:02 AM
Sorry for a late reply Filibuster...

It was a blue-printed "late" Chief rod that would no longer accept the crankpin and rollers after a 'conventional' tweaking.
You can't straighten a rod for bend or twist until races and bushing are fitted, as those operations add error, and the massage made things move.

So I conjured an expandable collet to hold the female rod in a press to keep the races firm while punished (attached).

Bend and twist are a lot more manageable than an offset, which is even more difficult to detect while assembled.

....Cotten

My chemistry prof used to say, ".. if you can appreciate that..", as in "recognize the full worth of.."
So I appreciate your contribution. Dam, there's just no end to the tooling required for perfection.
Is "perfect" the enemy of "good"? I heard that once, from a doctor.
The hub of an alignment tool appears to be the shape of the arbor of a sunnen hone stone rig. Can't tweak on that.
I once cut a shaft to as close a fit as I could manage, this prior to lapping.
Honestly, how diligent are our builders who do work for others? Do they really possess more sophisticated tools than clubs and rock bars?

T. Cotten
11-08-2015, 12:11 PM
...Honestly, how diligent are our builders who do work for others? Do they really possess more sophisticated tools than clubs and rock bars?

From my experience, Filibuster,..

The truly diligent can't make flat-rate.

If I don't make a new tool every day, my day is wasted.
But there is certainly a place for clubs on my wall. Several, actually.
Not sure about "rock bars" though. I have a pre-Columbian meteoric iron celt, if that counts.

....Cotten