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t-jacobs
03-11-2009, 06:09 PM
Hi all,
I am going to replace the clutch plates and clutch hub on my 64 FLH. I have NOS clutch plates and hub in hand. This is my first time. I have done a lot of reading and I am ready to take the job on. I can not find info on the torque for the compensator sprocket nut and the clutch hub nut. Is there a set torque for these nuts or just very tight in general?

Thanks for any info.

Rooster
03-11-2009, 06:31 PM
If you haven't already, you'll need to fabricate a 'jam bar'. This is simply a means to hold the motor or transmission from turning while you tighten or loosen the nuts.
Remember, there are only two left-hand threaded nuts on a Harley; both at the transmission.
There's a pretty good Torque Table in the 1970-78 Shovelhead Manual. Says the engine sprocket nut gets tightened at 170 ft/lbs, and the clutch hub nut at 50-60. Since the clutch is virtually the same, I'd go with that, but might back off the engine sprocket to 150 ft/lbs.

Here's a rough sketch of the jam bar. Position the bar to resist the pressures you put against it, whether it be for tightening or loosening.

bmh
03-11-2009, 07:30 PM
I don't think the jamb bar is going work for the clutch, you need to remove the pressure plate to get at the hub nut. without pressure on the discs the hub will spin free of the basket, so holding the sprockets does you nothing. If you take an old wore out lined disc and bolt or weld a piece of flat or bar stock as a handle to it you can slip that over the studs and use that to hold the hub while you tighten or loosen the hub nut with a socket. Of course if the trans is still in the bike you can put her in gear and get someone to stand on the rear brakes. For the motor sprocket I use a wooden wedge and feed it between the sprocket and chain in the correct direction to hold it for removal and install. J&P and others sell stepped Teflon blocks to do the same thing.

Rubone
03-11-2009, 07:52 PM
I personally don't like the trans in gear method. Nothing like a tooth broken off a gear to spoil your day! Make a clutch hub holder, it is cheap and easy. And don't go crazy on the clutch nut, it is left handed and if overtightened can split the hub through the keyway, or strip the mainshaft, neither one a desirable result!
Robbie

Rooster
03-11-2009, 08:00 PM
I don't think the jamb bar is going work for the clutch, you need to remove the pressure plate to get at the hub nut. without pressure on the discs the hub will spin free of the basket, so holding the sprockets does you nothing. If you take an old wore out lined disc and bolt or weld a piece of flat or bar stock as a handle to it you can slip that over the studs and use that to hold the hub while you tighten or loosen the hub nut with a socket. Of course if the trans is still in the bike you can put her in gear and get someone to stand on the rear brakes. For the motor sprocket I use a wooden wedge and feed it between the sprocket and chain in the correct direction to hold it for removal and install. J&P and others sell stepped Teflon blocks to do the same thing.

Correct you are on the hub nut! My mistake.
Just a few weeks ago I fabbed a couple of those tools, an old disk with a chunk of flat stock welded on as a handle.
But after that task has been achieved, the jam bar will come in handy for the engine sprocket. I can't figure out why anyone would risk stretching or damaging a chain by cramming something in it like that. Once you try a jam bar, you'll never use any of those other devices. J&P? Really? You buy stuff there?

t-jacobs
03-13-2009, 04:19 PM
Thanks for the info guys. i have already made a clutch hub holder tool. Rooster when you refer to 150 or 170 lbs for the engine sprocket does that hold the same for the compensator sprocket or did you mean to say compensator sprocket?

Thanks

Rooster
03-13-2009, 05:31 PM
Thanks for the info guys. i have already made a clutch hub holder tool. Rooster when you refer to 150 or 170 lbs for the engine sprocket does that hold the same for the compensator sprocket or did you mean to say compensator sprocket?

Thanks

Hmmmm.... that value would probably be correct for an engine sprocket nut, on the inside of the flywheel. Let me get back to you, I'm looking around, and I'll ask some people I know. I'd be careful not to over-tighten, for sure.

Rooster
03-13-2009, 05:51 PM
I looked in several different manuals, and the only value I could find was for a mid-80's belt drive model. That torque value is 80-100 ft/lbs. In the 1959-69 manual, it tells how to remove the compensator sprocket nut with several sharp blows with a hammer. But nowhere in the text does it tell you the torque setting upon reinstallation.
Unless someone can give you a difinitive answer, I'd say anywhere from 100-120 pounds would be good (be sure to use Loctite thread-locker). My motorhead buddy says that's one of the nuts that just doesn't seem to have a value. He sets his at "damn tight".

motorhead1
03-13-2009, 05:53 PM
The compensator sprocket IS the engine sprocket.

Rooster
03-13-2009, 06:36 PM
The compensator sprocket IS the engine sprocket.

That's right. And the sprocket shaft nut is what holds the shaft to the flywheel. It tightens to 150-170.

bmh
03-14-2009, 10:01 AM
I can't figure out why anyone would risk stretching or damaging a chain by cramming something in it like that. Once you try a jam bar, you'll never use any of those other devices. J&P? Really? You buy stuff there?

Wow, if you can stretch a double row diamond chain with a torque wrench I'll pay your stakes in the arm wrestling championships and we can make some money. Yet you never seem to consider the effect a jamb bar could have on bending sprocket teeth? Would seem much easier to bend teeth than stretch a chain to me. Besides the wedge method is the one described and used in all modern H-D service manuals, not a locking bar (Primary Drive Locking Tool, part# HD41214). As for J&P? I have purchased from them in the past and most likely will again in the future. Why wouldn't I? After all John Parham is not only an antique motorcycle enthusiast, the primary sponsor of the National Motorcycle Museum in Animosa Iowa, but last I knew was also a member of this club so please tell me again why I should boycot his buissiness?

exeric
03-14-2009, 10:26 AM
In no way am I questioning the torque values of various clutch and engine sprocket nuts, but I do wonder how a wimp like me is going to pull 150-170 ft/lbs. on a motorcycle. I could do it on a bulldozer or some other multi-ton object because you have the weight of the object for stability. I've tried pulling high torque weights on flywheels that I have assembled and trued and I end up dragging the work bench all over the shop. I know some people cheat and use a pneumatic impact gun to tighten sprocket nuts, however a friend of mine did that on a late model Chief and pulled the engine sprocket nut so tight it bound up the engine. I wouldn't have thought you could deform hardend steel tapers and thrust washers to that degree. Anyhow, I'm just curious how other people pull high torques on bikes that are still on their wheels without some NFL linebacker holding the bike.

Rooster
03-14-2009, 11:30 AM
Wow, if you can stretch a double row diamond chain with a torque wrench I'll pay your stakes in the arm wrestling championships and we can make some money. Yet you never seem to consider the effect a jamb bar could have on bending sprocket teeth? Would seem much easier to bend teeth than stretch a chain to me. Besides the wedge method is the one described and used in all modern H-D service manuals, not a locking bar (Primary Drive Locking Tool, part# HD41214). As for J&P? I have purchased from them in the past and most likely will again in the future. Why wouldn't I? After all John Parham is not only an antique motorcycle enthusiast, the primary sponsor of the National Motorcycle Museum in Animosa Iowa, but last I knew was also a member of this club so please tell me again why I should boycot his buissiness?

You can sure read a lot of stuff into a post that was never said...!

Rooster
03-14-2009, 11:43 AM
Yet you never seem to consider the effect a jamb bar could have on bending sprocket teeth? Would seem much easier to bend teeth than stretch a chain to me.

"Bending sprocket teeth"? You're not serious. ;) It's obvious to me you've never tried the jam bar, so why would you have an opinion on something you've never tried and really know nothing about?
Now ask yourself this--- which is the first to fail, the chain or 'bent teeth' on the sprockets?
Naaa... never mind, don't think about it. :D

Chris Haynes
03-14-2009, 07:53 PM
A folded up shop towel between the chain and the clutch sprocket works if yer in a bind.

bmh
03-15-2009, 08:12 AM
"Bending sprocket teeth"? You're not serious. "so why would you have an opinion on something you've never tried and really know nothing about?



Yet you were seriuos about stretching the chain?????? I also realized you can't use a jamb bar to get the hub nut off. I've tried many things over the years and merely pointed out an alternative method wich may be quicker and easier with what was at hand. There are lots of ways to skin cats.

Rooster
03-18-2009, 08:01 AM
For T-jacobs:

I finally found a spec for the torque setting for the compensator sprocket nut, this is for shovelhead 1970-83; 80-100 ft/lbs. I would think it would reasonable to use the same value on a Panhead with compensator sprocket.
This information is out of the Harley "Specifications Manual All Models 1970 to 1983" , HD part #99955-83.

rousseau
03-18-2009, 10:46 PM
Rooster

100 ft pounds on the compensator/crank bolt. Also use a litle loctite. The left hand nut on the clutch 65 ft pounds. No locktite needed here ,you should have a locking tab washer. Put the trans in 4th gear and stik an old wood broom handle through the wheel and swingarm. You can torque away. And believe this. You will not stretch the chain ,bend the sprocket teeth,or damage the wheel or swingarm. You won't even hurt the BROOMSTICK

Chris Haynes
03-18-2009, 11:30 PM
But you can bend the spokes doing that.

Rooster
03-19-2009, 09:02 AM
Rooster

100 ft pounds on the compensator/crank bolt. Also use a litle loctite. The left hand nut on the clutch 65 ft pounds. No locktite needed here ,you should have a locking tab washer. Put the trans in 4th gear and stik an old wood broom handle through the wheel and swingarm. You can torque away. And believe this. You will not stretch the chain ,bend the sprocket teeth,or damage the wheel or swingarm. You won't even hurt the BROOMSTICK

I'll be sure to pass your opinion along to T-jacobs. Thank-you.

exeric
03-19-2009, 09:29 AM
Rousseau, that is some practical advice. As I said earlier, torque values are all well and good if you are working on a heavy object that isn't going anywhere but if you're pulling 100 ft/lbs. with one arm and trying to hold back 100 ft/lbs. with the other arm, you may get a hernia. I just went through all of this with my Henderson motor. It's not like you can put it in a vise and torque away.

rousseau
03-19-2009, 10:55 PM
But you can bend the spokes doing that.

I have never bent any spokes either.

t-jacobs
03-24-2009, 05:31 PM
Thanks for all the great info. I would have responded back sooner, but I was in Vegas for 9 days donating my cash to the casinos.

Rubone
03-24-2009, 05:37 PM
Smart thing to do in this economy!
Robbie