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View Full Version : Engine/Tranny Case Sealant? Gasoila?



GrandpasHarley
02-11-2009, 11:35 PM
I am getting ready to put my Panhead motor back together and wondered what to use on the inside of the engine and tranny cases as a sealant.

I was told to use Gasoila Hard-Set red varnish sealant. I was going to pick up some tomorrow but thought I would ask you guys first. What is your experience, if any, with using this?

I did search the forum for gasoila and only three hits came up, I know that Cotton stated gasoila isn't good for carb floats due to fuel, but does this apply to the cases considering it sees mostly oil?

Thanks,

Josh

rousseau
02-12-2009, 01:41 AM
I did this with the gasolia back in 2001. worked great.

T. Cotten
02-13-2009, 08:46 AM
Glyptal is superior to Gasoila by far, but it must be pointed out that any contamination with modern digestive fuels can take either of them out. They do NOT resist P4gas.

This is especially of concern to owners of H-D OHV's with leaky petcocks.

....Cotten

T. Cotten
02-14-2009, 08:26 AM
I got six years out of Yamabond4 as a sealer for between the cases.

Not bad, if only it was a Yamaha.

H-D's (-80 OEM number) 3M #800 Industrial Sealer does much, much better, but it's ugly.

Neither are appropriate for sealing the inside surfaces, encapsulating abrasives, etc.
I have only found some epoxies and isocyanate urethane to survive fuel contamination.

....Cotten

bmh
02-14-2009, 10:34 AM
Nordbak industrial epoxy from Loctite will stand up to almost anything. It is expensive though, about $250 for a small kit that would do a few sets of cases.

Carl Olsen
02-16-2009, 10:04 PM
I use a product from the electric motor repair shops, it is called Dolph ER44 poleurethane sealer. It comes in a large spray can and a little goes a long ways, been using it for well over 20 years.
Carl

Paps
02-17-2009, 08:39 AM
Carl...after opening cases, which you used this product on, for an over haul, are you stating, the sealer held up and did not flake off anywhere ? Thanks, Paps

willardsmarts h-d parts
02-21-2009, 12:03 PM
Glyptal is superior to Gasoila by far, but it must be pointed out that any contamination with modern digestive fuels can take either of them out. They do NOT resist P4gas.

This is especially of concern to owners of H-D OHV's with leaky petcocks.

....Cotten willardsmarts: Make sure you dont breath in the Glyptal great inside cases but bad inside Us. Jeff willardsmarts AMCA 9583

GrandpasHarley
02-28-2009, 12:20 PM
I have decided to go with the Glyptal, looks to be a bit better then the Gasoila, even though they both are not perfect.

I found the cheapest price for Glyptal to be $38.99/quart from Caswell, Ebay and Eastwood sell it for $49.99/quart. I never really dug into the electrical supply companies, so it may be found cheaper yet.
http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/glyptal.html

If you want to use the Gasoila, then V-Twin sells a 1/4 pint for an overcharged price of $36.31, or you can save money and buy it for $15.29 or better yet buy 1 pint for $34.16 from JME
http://www.jmesales.com This was local, so I ended my search with that.

As for the Dolph ER44 I only found their website, but didn't find any pricing.
http://www.dolphs.com/

I really hope this info helps someone when faced with a similar question.

Thanks for all the help guys,

Josh

willardsmarts h-d parts
03-01-2009, 10:11 AM
I have decided to go with the Glyptal, looks to be a bit better then the Gasoila, even though they both are not perfect.

I found the cheapest price for Glyptal to be $38.99/quart from Caswell, Ebay and Eastwood sell it for $49.99/quart. I never really dug into the electrical supply companies, so it may be found cheaper yet.
http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/glyptal.html

If you want to use the Gasoila, then V-Twin sells a 1/4 pint for an overcharged price of $36.31, or you can save money and buy it for $15.29 or better yet buy 1 pint for $34.16 from JME
http://www.jmesales.com This was local, so I ended my search with that.

As for the Dolph ER44 I only found their website, but didn't find any pricing.
http://www.dolphs.com/

I really hope this info helps someone when faced with a similar question.

Thanks for all the help guys,

Josh
Hi I got on the phone to 1411 and the co give me a dealer that was was in Salt Lake City, Utah. I got two spary cans for about $18.00 each, One I gave to a good friend. And have used the other on 5 or 6 Bikes and it is about 1/2 full still. The Can has no it Glyptal 1201-A Red Insulating Enamel 12. 75 ozs. Glpyptal Inc. CHELSEA,MA 02150. Hope this helps willardsmarts h-d parts $ sales Jeff/Claudia AMCA 9583

Barry
03-09-2009, 02:42 PM
Carl, is there any difference in ER44 and Dolph's ER-41 Polyurethane red insulator?

Bill Pedalino
04-05-2009, 05:07 PM
I've been using Glyptal for about 10 years, prior to that I used Gasoila. Both work well, but I like the Glyptcal much better. AS fopr the Gasoila, you must be absoluiteoy certain that ALL the oil is out of the casting before you apply it or the Gasoila will peal off. in small sheets.

GrandpasHarley
12-13-2009, 01:19 PM
Okay I am finally ready to seal my engine and transmission cases using Glyptal.

Reading the can it says an appropriate brush is needed to apply... but it doesn't say what is considered to be an appropriate brush????

It also says that when possible the coating should be baked for 2 hours at 125F. Is it necessary to do this?

I don't want to cut any corners on this so I am asking those who are far me experienced then I to lend in your advice.

Thanks,

Josh Richardson

Robert Luland
12-13-2009, 01:55 PM
Josh keep in mind a Harley tranny has no pressure due to the fact that it’s vented. You’re not working with the Columbia’s booster o rings here. What ever your choice of indestructible sealant your going to use there are certain guidelines to be followed. First is mating surface preparation. I use a white cotton cloth with lacquer thinner (Do not use paint thinner or others like it because they leave residue). I wipe those surfaces until that cloth remains white and the pores of the surface are oil free. Guaranteed no leak pans. Second is the amount of sealant. Lets keep in mind that the stuff your about to use is just that. Indestructible! Any extra than is needed could end up braking off inside and end up in a very important spot like an oil passage. Twenty years ago I came up with a simple way of dealing with this. I live out of a clip board. I save the cardboard backings. I apply sealant to one side of the gasket and smear it out against the card board and the other side the same way. This leaves the gasket surface saturated with no excess. Hope this helps. Bob L

Robert Luland
12-13-2009, 09:07 PM
Sorry I miss read the post. Hope ya can still use the info. Bob L

T. Cotten
12-14-2009, 08:12 AM
Josh!

Glyptal goes on well with a cheap disposable foam brush. Thorough de-greasing and pre-prep is critical, as with any sealer.

A gentle slow bake is highly desireable; It will turn a darker shade, letting you know it is fully cured.

Last week, an associate brought in an OHV lower end that I performed thirteen years ago.
The glyptal was pristine, indicating that he had a very secure petcock.


....Cotten

GrandpasHarley
12-29-2009, 01:23 PM
Thanks Bob and Cotten that information is very helpful

Regarding case preparation before putting in the Glyptal. I washed the Case in paint thinner/mineral spirits. Let air dry, then bead blasted all the grime away with AB size glass beads. Then I placed the case, kicker cover, and top plate, in my mother's dishwasher over Christmas, I did not use soap, just a hot water wash/rinse.

I wasn't able to pull out the parts until later, so they completely dried in the dishwasher. Oxidization started to take place on the inside of the case leaving white residue.

What is the best way for me to clean out aluminum oxidation residue before coating with Glyptal and baking in the oven?

Thanks,

GrandpasHarley
12-29-2009, 11:51 PM
Earlier post #14....



It also says that when possible the coating should be baked for 2 hours at 125F. Is it necessary to do this?


Should Read "... 2 hours at 125C..."

larry
01-04-2010, 07:54 AM
A 10% ethanol/gasoline blend will remove baked on Glyptal overnight. Is this not a problem?

T. Cotten
01-04-2010, 08:27 AM
Larry!

Glyptal has excellent resistance againt ethanol alone.
However, USA fuels combine it with highly digestive injector cleaners, detergents, and other un-named additives to form mixes that can even eat powdercoating.

Within your motor, it should only a problem if your petcock leaks, particularly for American OHVs.
Perhaps if the motor develops severe blow-by past the rings, then the coating would be compromised, but the rest of the assembly would be on a short fuse already.

....Cotten

larry
01-05-2010, 08:30 AM
Thank you.

Re-cycleInc
01-07-2010, 03:59 PM
Ok...sorry for the dumb question, but why do I need to coat the inside of my cases and cam cover? I just pulled apart my 47WL cases, cleaned them, checked the tolerances and reassembled everything without using any sealers except for the normal gasket surfaces. I used the Yamabond on the cases and I'm hoping it holds up, but I guess it doesn't matter since it sounds like I have to take apart the whole thing in order to redo the insides. :( What advantage does the coating (Gasolia or otherwise) provide on the inside of cases? Is it a seepage/penetration issue?

Thanks,
Scott
AMCA# 13993

Chris Haynes
01-07-2010, 06:00 PM
Your cast aluminum cases are porous. In rare occasions oil can seep through the pores. Coating the inside also make a smoother surface so oil can return to the bottom faster.

T. Cotten
01-07-2010, 06:52 PM
The next reason is to encapsulate any embedded grit.

...Cotten

Re-cycleInc
01-07-2010, 08:18 PM
ah ha...I get it now, thanks. I imagined that oil could possibly seep, but discounted it. I can see how it would give the oil a more slick surface to help it back to the bottom of the case too. My experiences have been mostly with late model Yamaha's at this point and I've never seen it on any of those cases, but the castings are incredibly smooth and non-porous. The same was true for the '70 XLCH that I did a while back. This was the first time I had seen the Gasolia so I figured someone else had added it during a restoration and that it wasn't necessary. I then started seeing it in more and moer pictures so I figures I'd ask the experts here. Looks like I'll be tearing apart the motor I just had just about finished!

Scott
AMCA# 13993