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View Full Version : Brough in Vegas.....



c.o.
01-15-2009, 07:06 PM
Here's a little clip from the Vegas auction.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=qzbRc9-PomM&feature=related

exeric
01-15-2009, 08:26 PM
Wow ! It failed to sell at $235,000. I must be missing something because I never thought a Brough was that good looking. As English bikes go, I think a Vincent is a much more interesting and attractive motorcycle. However, if you want the honest truth, I'd take a Harley, Henderson, Excelsior, Indian, Pope, Merkel, Pierce, Emblem, etc, etc, etc over a Brough any day of the week. I guess I'm just an ignorant colonial.

jwl
01-15-2009, 09:19 PM
You Are Not Alone !!!!

c.o.
01-15-2009, 11:36 PM
I can appreciate most old bikes, but if I had to be totally honest I'd have to agree with you fellas. I did figure that Barry might be interested though.....

Smarty
01-16-2009, 09:43 AM
Wow ! It failed to sell at $235,000. I must be missing something because I never thought a Brough was that good looking. As English bikes go, I think a Vincent is a much more interesting and attractive motorcycle. However, if you want the honest truth, I'd take a Harley, Henderson, Excelsior, Indian, Pope, Merkel, Pierce, Emblem, etc, etc, etc over a Brough any day of the week. I guess I'm just an ignorant colonial.

As I'd have a Brough over any of the above, not only for the "form follows function" aesthetics but for the performance and smooth ride over any of the manufacturers named above, I'm perhaps just an ignorant Englishman.

To use a cliche, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

exeric
01-16-2009, 10:10 AM
Duly noted Martin. The Brough has panache for whatever reason. So does the Crocker, and '36 Knuckle but don't ask me why. Both of those bikes have their shortcommings compared to the competition but they rose to the top of the list in monetary value. The collector's world is truly an stange and mysterious place.

Rubone
01-16-2009, 07:16 PM
I suspect that a Brough would not have fared all that well in America. Rough and tough colonials would have made short work of its sensitive side!
Robbie

c.o.
01-16-2009, 08:27 PM
I find it funny that a debate can form from any ol' thread......... The way I look at is.... I like what I like and you can like what you like. Nuff said........besides if everybody was as obsessive about the early stuff as some of us it would mean less potential Merkels, Popes, Excelsiors, Hendersons, Indians or Silent Gray Fellows for the rest of us! (This is a real thing for me fellas as I'm still waiting to stumble upon my early machine...chuckle..chuckle..)

Smarty
01-17-2009, 05:37 AM
I suspect that a Brough would not have fared all that well in America. Rough and tough colonials would have made short work of its sensitive side!
Robbie

Good point Robbie, George Brough did participate in long distance endurance trials in Europe in the mid 20's with SS 100's. Some of these events were in the Alps mountains in Switzerland and central europe which is where George Brough thought of the "Alpine Grand Sports" name he used for one specification of his bikes. I've seen pictures in the Harley Enthusiast from the 20's and 30's of the state of roads in the US which at the time were a bit more "agricultural" than in the UK or Europe, so you could be spot on that they wouldn't have lasted, and without a dealer network they would have needed to be transported back to the works in Nottingham UK for repairs.

Buying a Brough in the 30's could be a pretty personal business as the potential owner travelled to the Brough works in Nottingham to agree the specification and place the order for the bike and then once again to collect the bike. It would perhaps have been a trek to far to come over to the UK from the US when there was an American manufacturer's dealer in the next town.

Brough though are probably more famous for speed records at Brooklands and the World Record attempts of Eric Fernihough and friends in the early to mid 30's.

It would have been fascinating to see a Brough SS 100 "Pendine" or even "Pendalpine" pitched against some of the US board track racing bikes from in the mid to late 20's, would have settled the debate once and for all.

Smarty
01-17-2009, 05:42 AM
I can appreciate most old bikes, but if I had to be totally honest I'd have to agree with you fellas. I did figure that Barry might be interested though.....

I find it funny that a debate can form from any ol' thread......... The way I look at is.... I like what I like and you can like what you like. Nuff said........besides if everybody was as obsessive about the early stuff as some of us it would mean less potential Merkels, Popes, Excelsiors, Hendersons, Indians or Silent Gray Fellows for the rest of us! (This is a real thing for me fellas as I'm still waiting to stumble upon my early machine...chuckle..chuckle..)



Cory....I think it was you who started the debate saying you didn't like Broughs LOL.

Its good to have a healthy debate though.

All the best and safe riding

Martin

c.o.
01-17-2009, 10:26 AM
Oh, contraire Martin........... I didn't say that I didn't like Broughs. I do have preferences but who doesn't? I'm more of a daydreamer that harkens back to a slower pace. A Brough doesn't fit into that category now does it? LOL...and yes a debate can be healthy.......

All the best right back to ya and I hope all is well across the pond!

Barry Brown
01-17-2009, 04:13 PM
BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3367/3204789226_a01253c5f8_b.jpg

Barry Brown
01-17-2009, 04:16 PM
GEORGE BROUGH'S PERSONAL RIDE THE FIRST ALPINE GRAND SPORTS
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3367/3203939315_3c32ba318e_b.jpg

Barry Brown
01-17-2009, 04:19 PM
FIRST BROUGH TO LAP BROOKLANDS AT OVER 100MPH MID TWENTIES. FIRED UP WITH ROLLERS ON METHANOL AT THE 50TH RALLY IN NOTTINGHAM LAST AUGUST
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3323/3204782562_167f0c6cf4_b.jpg

Barry Brown
01-17-2009, 04:30 PM
the oldest or second oldest Brough in existence. One family ownership since new and still ridden long distances!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3470/3203988915_f169f70ea3_b.jpg

Barry Brown
01-17-2009, 04:33 PM
I HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF RIDING THIS FIRE BREATHING MONSTER AT THE RALLY IN ENGLAND. THIS BIKE WON A LOT OF RACES IN IT'S DAY, VERY FAST
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3456/3203984543_f1389d459e_b.jpg

Barry Brown
01-17-2009, 04:34 PM
THE VIEW MOST COMPETITORS SAW AT BROOKLANDS
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3299/3203986657_2bb4f6ba73_b.jpg

Barry Brown
01-17-2009, 04:36 PM
MY 1929 SS100 ALPINE GRAND SPORTS
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3461/3204829320_0fb52187f1_b.jpg

Barry Brown
01-17-2009, 05:16 PM
I'M NOT NARROW MINDED, I LIKE LOTS OF AMERICAN BIKES TOO BUT PREFER THE LOOKS OF INDIANS OVER HARLEYS THIS IS MY 36 FOUR. SADDLE SPRINGS WERE AT THE TIME OF THE PICTURE ON LOAN TO MR. FICKAU!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3498/3204939890_eacf5d2ea8_b.jpg

c.o.
01-17-2009, 09:57 PM
That is one sweet injun! Got any spare pics of the Koslow?

jurassic
01-17-2009, 11:25 PM
barry,i've always been a fan, the vintage years at brooklands is priceless. http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3589/zbroqm7.jpg

Barry Brown
01-18-2009, 09:35 AM
Lonnie, You are probably aware that picture of Freddie Dixon depicts the very same bike that I pictured at the rally. It was nicknamed the "Works Scrapper" and held not only Brooklands records but the world speed record as well. A new book has just been published about Freddie Dixon, he was quite a character. Of course he also had an incredible 8 valve Harley which he campaigned at brooklands etc. in a loop frame with an Indian transmission and many other of his one off mods including his own "clip on " handlebars, maybe the very first ever? Unfortunately this bike was "sanitized" and all this history lost. The Scrapper also has these clip ons. Of course Dixon's Douglas outfit that won the first Isle of man sidecar race in 23 had disc brakes. The man was clearly ahead of the curve. He also was an engineer who contributed to the Brough Gloden Dream design , a flat four shaft drive.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3134/3205788333_97960f4288_b.jpg

c.o.
01-18-2009, 01:22 PM
Thanks Barry that bike deserves a thread of it's own!!

Smarty
01-18-2009, 03:25 PM
Barry,

Some great pictures of Broughs, including your own SS 100, thanks for posting. The most beautiful Brough I ever saw was the 1925 SS100 AGS that Tony Cripps restored a few years back and which I believe now resides in the US.

Million dollar question though Barry, when your current time on this planet is up which bike would you choose to be buried with and so take to ride in the next world ? would it be the Koslow or the Brough ?

Regards,

Martin

Barry Brown
01-18-2009, 04:23 PM
I agree that Tony Cripp's bike "TO..." set a new standard for excellence of restoration. Even better in my mind is this early patinated 100 that was discovered in Scotland and IS BELIEVED TO BE Lawrence's first ss100 although there is no definitive proof yet. Here it is as I photographed it in front of Lawrence's cottage "Clouds Hill" very near to the place of his fatal accident. The Latin inscription above the doorway translates as "nothing matters"
As far as bikes to be buried with I prefer none but would like to think someone will cherish and ride them when I am gone. In the afterlife I am hoping for an early Munch Mammut and since I am one of the few who finds beauty in them feel I have a good chance!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3412/3206895123_24667b902e_b.jpg

Barry Brown
01-18-2009, 05:59 PM
Since I knew I could never own TO I commissioned a painting to be done.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3354/3207194341_1e4d4fc107_b.jpg

Barry Brown
01-18-2009, 06:06 PM
Here is the beginning of my circa 1925 ss100 "bitza" Still need lots of parts especially engine internals. Can anyone help?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3412/3207212793_0b8c6776d6_b.jpg

Smarty
01-18-2009, 06:59 PM
Barry,

It's strange that I live about 20 miles from Cloud's Hill and have ridden bikes past it many times including on the VMCC's Lawrence of Arabia Run where we (about 20-30 of us on vintage bikes) visit Lawrence's grave at Morton cemetary to pay our respects to him, yet have never actually been to the cottage itself, I'll make the effort this year on a bike old enough to have been around when Lawrence himself was riding.

XX 7646 looks beautiful too with its aged patina, having seen the pictures of TO' before it was restored, it had to be restored rather than preserved as XX has been.

There is a guy in yorkshire UK making parts for the early JAP's and who sells via ebay (UK), or I guess you have spoken to Ken Middleditch who built a "new" Brough from scratch (it was featured in The Classic Motorcycle a few years back),to find out where he had engine components manufactured ?

Kind regards,

Martin

Barry Brown
01-18-2009, 07:47 PM
Martin, Wow, that is too bad you hadn't known about that day we rode over to Cloud's Hill.We all got in for free and a tour because of the Brough connection! I forget how many bikes but it was around 30 Broughs and a few Brough autos as well. During the rally there were several non Broughs keeping us company, it seems all were accepted and all told a super bunch of people in the club not at all what you sometmes hear from outsiders. Barry
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3342/3207485243_496b2622ee_b.jpg

Eric MATHIEU
01-19-2009, 05:00 AM
Hot damn Barry you got me fired up again. I've always felt the BS was a bitza with the JAP engine really being the "nice" part of the bike but the shots you posted make me feel a little different. That Indian four of yours is an absolute beauty thanks for sharing.
Eric

Barry Brown
01-19-2009, 09:34 AM
Darn it all, I was afraid that might happen. The Brough magic is not just the looks but the whole sheebang, the aura of the bikes, the world records, George himself, the Lawrence connection, and last but not least the enthusiasm , helpfulness and friendly disposition of the hard core club members. Pretty incredible when you think only around 3000 bikes were made.

exeric
01-19-2009, 11:39 AM
I may not be a fan of the Brough, but I love to hear the enthusiasim, history, and great stories about any motorcycle that people are passionate about. I wish more of our members would contribute their knowledge of the obsure and unusual motorcycles that are in our club. I love Chiefs, Panheads, and Knuckleheads but even if you love cheeseburgers, you don't want them for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Smarty
01-19-2009, 11:42 AM
I may not be a fan of the Brough, but I love to hear the enthusiasim, history, and great stories about any motorcycle that people are passionate about. I wish more of our members would contribute their knowledge of the obsure and unusual motorcycles that are in our club. I love Chiefs, Panheads, and Knuckleheads but even if you love cheeseburgers, you don't want them for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

LMAO Exeric...........what's wrong with a cheese burger and fries for breakfast with a bacon roll chaser ?

Smarty
01-19-2009, 11:49 AM
Barry, the other amazing thing about Broughs is that for the original production run, so many have survived to this day, although I suppose they have always been special and were never really just an "old fashioned bike" that nobody wanted or cherished.

Any pictures of "Moby Dick" from the BS Rally ?

Regards,

Martin

Barry Brown
01-20-2009, 12:53 PM
Interesting you mention this famous modified Brough as I do not recall it being there or possibly i missed it in the sea of 217 others and the fact i was smitten with the works scrapper and the other racers. On the rally proper , ie, actually riding the bikes at the various venues before the big day at Nottingham , there were only about 30 or so Broughs. It is probably a sad reflection on the fact that values have caused a lot of machines to now remain as dormant museum pieces or investments.

William McClean
01-20-2009, 04:18 PM
Great photos, Thanks !