Definition of Period Correct.

[Ohio-Rider]

I’ve heard a lot of folks describe their vintage motorcycles as being “period correct”. To me that has always meant that the bike consisted of parts with-in a few years from the date it was manufactured. I’m curious as to what others would consider that phrase to mean?

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Any bike, 'modified or 'stock' with added accessories close to the year of production would be considered 'Period Correct'.

At least that's how I interpreted Kevin's explanation from an earlier post. (see 'Judging' post 'Curious To Know' 5-6-2008)

If you want to really challange yourself, keep the bike period correct to the models end of production year. So that would mean only parts, accessories available to that specific year and earlier and be able to prove it thru motorcycle magazine accessory ads, after market manufacturers catalogs, Dealer accessory/parts books that are dated NO LATER then your bikes given year.

No brownie points for your effort, just self satisfaction that you did it and likely proving to your wife and friends that you probably realy are nuts. Hrdly

George
#3232

[Barry Brown]

that interpretation seems ridiculous since new aftermarket parts and accessories would have invariably been added in the year or even many years AFTER purchase just as they are today.
by trying to keep it all within a year we are misinterpreting or distorting the past

[Magic]

Yes Period correct applies to accessories added to a Motorcycle available at that time or just after. (Cheese Grate bumper grilles, Wheel covers, Buco trim, extra marker lighting, etc. I believe for judging accessories are not looked upon or judged as long as they are "Peroid correct" Restored Motorcycles usually don't have too many accessories on as those Period correct parts maybe hard to find NOS. I personally don't consider new aftermarket accessories as period correct and more like copies of. Merlin in Pa.

[bobdo]

I'm with Barry's thinking on this. I don't know what the official AMCA judging take is on this, but my feeling is the accessories were added after the purchase of the new bike. I'm sure guys added used accessories that would be manufactured earlier. But, I'll bet most would prefer to buy new added later. I opted to put the 49 type spotlights on my 47. But of course the earlier type was available in 47 also.
When & if I ever have it judged as period correct, I'll find out. Bottom line is, I like it.
Have a good year, Bob

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Don't blow a gasket man. You can add all the aftermarket parts you want. Hell add 1960 parts to your 1950 bike, I don't care. Hrdly



that interpretation seems ridiculous since new aftermarket parts and accessories would have invariably been added in the year or even many years AFTER purchase just as they are today.
by trying to keep it all within a year we are misinterpreting or distorting the past

[Red Fred]

No need to blow a gasket at all over this one. I'm just thankfull that we, and the AMCA recognize Period Modifieds now! Period! From Long Beach Cut-Downs (altered wheel based JDs), Bob Jobs (abreviated fenders & excess crab disgarded), Baggers (needing an additional generator to get the job done for the added lights), and the family wagon with, perhaps, a set of Flanders risers & bars;..........It's all good!
Myself, which is of no consequence here (it's my day off, and we're not on the judging field) is that any period modifications, should consist of only year of manufacture parts, or NEWER! I realize that this isn't always the case, but most sidewalk commandos wouldn't be caught dead with something older on his ride than the year of said ride. Definately goes for the car scene too.
The only objections I've witnessed are folks who apply feathered face horns on thier '40s & '50s Indians, or '50s trim on thier Evos. And we wouldn't want to have anything to do with them would we? Although, I do remember an Electro-Glide Shovel with a ULH engine. Had electric start too!!!!
Having fun with rusty parts, RF.

[Glenn]

I've got a set of super shape saddle bags that were on my 50 that Worsham is doing over for me they are not the 50 bag but 53 originals. I understand that they are ok to leave on if I were to get judged.

they are the speed king bags

[Magic]

Period correct terminlogy is different then Period Modified. Period Modified is a class in it's own that consists of Bobbers, choppers, and dressed up accessoried Motorcycles restored or original (period correct). The Period correct terminology as I see it and mentioned earlier would be accessorized original Motorcycle and I may be mistakin somewhat. Also accessories sold at the time of or before only because of that there were differences in design that wouldn't be correct in judging for an original motorcycle. example would be 1961 H-D FLH Spot lights bulb type on a 1962 FLH that had sealed beam lights or visa-versa. So many changes especially on H-D's, as well as other models. This is a touchy subject with many. I like the period modified class as it shows the expression people put into their motorcycles during an period of time. Kevin would definately have this answer.

[William McClean]

Period Modified is one of the National Recognition Awards that the National allows the Local Chapters to recognize at the National Meets, just like Longest Distance Riden, Oldest, Most Unique. It is not a Class. Period Modified machines are not judged using the AMCA 100 point judging system.

Is this correct ?

[Magic]

Yes I didn't mean to sound like it was a judged catagory because it's more like a judges favorite selection. I did mean judged catagory about the Period correct accessories on Motorcycles though. Merlin in Pa.

[exeric]

It would still be nice to see an accessory catagory on the AMCA forum. As a number of us said before, it's a mysterious segment of the hobby and everyone has some weird thing that they would like identified.

[Glenn]

so back to the question I guess I should just leave the bags off if I want to get it judged?

[Magic]

Glenn, That is one of those areas I don't really want to put a stamp on...meaning that accessories are not to be part of the judging process and saddlebags fall under accessories. I believe that the accessory is to be the correct one though and on an original unrestored should not matter on condition. On a restored Motorcycle I would think it should be the correct year like new or as long as it doesn't take away from the appearance of the Motorcycle. I wouldn't mention it although.... I went through this many years ago with a motorcycle being judged and after having a small deduction for the said accessory being wrong I took it off the next time and all was good. Very few people make it the first showing with an award and I don't mean that a a downer as I'm all but that. This Judging stuff I've seen people really get upset and then I look at their motorcycle and it was beautifull...It's fun and alot to learn and do alot of listening too...Patience is key. Merlin in Pa.

[Red Fred]

On the question of the saddle bags; I'm not an HD guy, but if the bike was originally a model that would have had the bags (An Indian Roadmaster would have the bags), and the bike is being judged as restored, then the bags should be of the correct style for that year. I'm not up on the HD lingo used here, but it sounds like you're trying to use newer bags on your bike? If it's entered in the restored catagory, then it well be scrutinized by the judges (which is an excelllent way for us to all learn about our bikes.....sign up as an apprentice judge.....it's an entire different world). But if you are entered as a Period Modified, which is a great class made possible by Kevin, then you are at the mercy of the hosting chapter of the event. Sorry I don't speak HD so well, so I'm a little off base on your situation.
I've heard that these Panheads have the valves installed up-side down. Must be just a fad, it'll never catch on! Flat is where it's at!
Have fun, RF.
PS. I have seen some HD bags that are colored though. Pretty cool. There was a green, or blue pair at the NY Road Run last year. Way Cool!

[servicardenise]

Hi there forum members, I hope all had a great holiday and all that sweet stuff. The thing that I remember about accessories are to get some documentation that they were available from the dealership at the time of purchase. If you could buy it at the time of purchase it should be allowable as an appropriate accessory from HD. I remember being on a team that judged the Roy bike from Don Wrench. The bike had some different colored accessories and alot of them, he got the original sales information from the prior owner's wife. It had those items purchased at the time of the order. The bike is at Quaker Steak and Lube in Sharon. Denise

[Chris Haynes]

Hi there forum members, I hope all had a great holiday and all that sweet stuff. The thing that I remember about accessories are to get some documentation that they were available from the dealership at the time of purchase. If you could buy it at the time of purchase it should be allowable as an appropriate accessory from HD. I remember being on a team that judged the Roy bike from Don Wrench. The bike had some different colored accessories and alot of them, he got the original sales information from the prior owner's wife. It had those items purchased at the time of the order. The bike is at Quaker Steak and Lube in Sharon. Denise

I didn't know the Quakers sold steaks. :D

[Ohio-Rider]

Great wings also Chris.
Don certainly did enjoy bolting on the accessories. I was offered a chance to purchase his original paint 53 pan in milk crates last winter. I would have loved to see it assembled. It had the hubcaps, cabbage cutters and a whole pile of fancy do-dads. Every nut and bolt was bagged and labeled. I shouldn’t have let that one get by me.

[T. Cotten]

Home-made one-off accessories are priceless.

Wouldn't "period" accessory judging dismiss them as a fault?

"Period Anything" is ridiculously un-judgeable.

After all, Rats Rule anyway.
I want to be refused entry into Rat Class.

....Cotten

[20scout]

All right, how about this one? I have an original 1929 chief that was purchased used by my great uncle in 1933. I also have original documantaion from the dealer saying that he put on heaver spokes, used speedometer and a few other small items. It has also been pointed out to me that it has an early 30's headlight too. Would this be judged as an original or Period Modified??

[Magic]

The Period modified class so it is doesn't get judged as said above with the 100pt system. It is as I believe a judges choice favorites, The ones I've seen have ranged from fully accessorized Motorcycles to the racer, or 60-70's Customized Motorcycles. Intersting group of Motorcycles. Any Motorcycle 35yrs or older I believe can enter the Period Modified Class. The competition is well done. Keep ridin them...Merlin in Pa.

[servicardenise]

Those quakers make steaks and wings and sell lots of other good stuff to drink and eat. Don had a fine selection of pretty cool stuff. Now the period modified is for really different stuff like the easy rider bikes.It doesn't follow the point system of standard judging. If you could buy the stuff for the Indian that was available from the dealer at the time of the sale it should be ok. We have had discussions about this during judges meetings. The standard is if it was available prior to that time the dealer may have it as a choice when ordering. The bike that is original should be just that, not anything more or less. Denise

[Chuck#1848]

The Period modified class so it is doesn't get judged as said above with the 100pt system. It is as I believe a judges choice favorites, The ones I've seen have ranged from fully accessorized Motorcycles to the racer, or 60-70's Customized Motorcycles. Intersting group of Motorcycles. Any Motorcycle 35yrs or older I believe can enter the Period Modified Class. The competition is well done. Keep ridin them...Merlin in Pa.

So just curious my top fork clamp has been "modified" on my 30 vl as shown in the picture attached........am I good?;)

[Chris Haynes]

So just curious my top fork clamp has been "modified" on my 30 vl as shown in the picture attached........am I good?;)

Period modified is a peoples choice award. Not part of National Judging.

[Magic]

Now that I think about it I remember something like that where the people chose on paper ballots or something like that..I'm mistaken.... what do the people know anyway :-) Merlin in Pa.

[Red Fred]

All right, how about this one? I have an original 1929 chief that was purchased used by my great uncle in 1933. I also have original documantaion from the dealer saying that he put on heaver spokes, used speedometer and a few other small items. It has also been pointed out to me that it has an early 30's headlight too. Would this be judged as an original or Period Modified??

this is an easy one. You mention a RE-purchase of a '29 model in '33. Aparently the docuementation is from the USED bike dealer. Original Judging is most difficult, as it requires the bike to be of, and maintained as, an original. Condition is of utmost importance, but not as much as correctness, and originality of ALL parts and components. The only variance is for "consumable" or wearable items; things that are disposable, or commonly replaceable; tires, rubber goods, light BULBS, leather belts.......things of that nature. Generally, updates, and improvements, especially way beyond the period of the bike, are discounted.
Yes, this is a fierce catagory, but the overall out-come is to provide a REFERENCE for future restorers!!!!!!!!! This is the ultimate goal; to PRESERVE the essence of the machine for reference. Apart from this, and just as important, and perhaps sometimes more appreciated; are period modified bikes. Bikes that tell the story of being used for generations, bikes that have been field repaired, or modified for thier essential uses. Without the likes of Kevin V. and Richard O. these catagories would have been dismissed. Now they are recognized, and definately gaining in acceptance and popularity.
Just because a certain 1928 machine may have been updated with a '32 headlight back in the day, does not dismiss this piece into oblivion. Granted, it may confuse future generations looking for docuementation on a restoration, but it's still part of history, and should be honored (which it is), but, BUT, it must be seperated from the referance archieve for CORRECT year of manufacture restoration, which is the embreyo of all we do.
Therefore, I declare that all of us should at least have a perfect restored version of our favorite bike, an original paint version, and a period modified edition. Actually, why stop there. Why not a modern, up-to-date, improved version also? A bike for every mood is what I say!
RF.

[c.o.]

Home-made one-off accessories are priceless.

Wouldn't "period" accessory judging dismiss them as a fault?

"Period Anything" is ridiculously un-judgeable.

After all, Rats Rule anyway.
I want to be refused entry into Rat Class.

....Cotten

Now that I would like to see! Is your dirt period correct???

[T. Cotten]

Home-made one-off accessories are priceless.

Wouldn't "period" accessory judging dismiss them as a fault?

"Period Anything" is ridiculously un-judgeable.

After all, Rats Rule anyway.
I want to be refused entry into Rat Class.

....Cotten

Now that I would like to see! Is your dirt period correct???

Quaternary Period; Pleistocene Epoch:
"glacial loess"

All Midwestern machines MUST display aeolian deposits, and Midwestern hill-climbers MUST display compaction of said deposits....

....Cotten

[William McClean]

If you want to really challange yourself, keep the bike period correct to the models end of production year. So that would mean only parts, accessories available to that specific year and earlier and be able to prove it thru motorcycle magazine accessory ads, after market manufacturers catalogs, Dealer accessory/parts books that are dated NO LATER then your bikes given year.

No brownie points for your effort, just self satisfaction that you did it and likely proving to your wife and friends that you probably realy are nuts. Hrdly

George
#3232[/QUOTE]

Wise words.

Even though you don't get Brownie points, you do get to keep some of your 100 points.

:D Anybody know how many Brownie points Pixie Sticks are worth ?

[Ohio-Rider]

From all the points of view offered here, I can easily say that not even one of the folks that I have heard calling their bikes “period correct” have been correct. Thanks to everyone for helping me with my continuing education about theses old machines.

[exeric]

I would suspect that very few of the accessory loving motorcyclists of yore and today got all of their accessories at one time. Making a motorcycle look like Liberace owned it takes a lot of time and money. All of these bikes were a work in progress and something that was just GeeGaw in 1950 could have been replaced by something SuperGeeGaw in 1957.

[servicardenise]

Pixie Sticks are worth at least 95 points

[bobdo]

I disagree with the Period Modified rule of accessories having to be from year of manufacture or EARLIER. I agree with Eric, that many accessory purchases probably occurred after a year or so when extra money became available after the initial purchase. This is true today as well. I purchased a push button Softail in '05. At that time the dealer provided an accessory catalog the size of a NY phone book. The last few years I've made changes to the bike.
I don't think times have changed in that respect.
I can appreciate the difficulty of judging & having to make limitations, but I think the accessories should be allowed a number of years after as well.
I guess I won't be able to have it judged Period Modified in 2040 when I'm 84.
Bob #3756

[kval]

Bob
the accessory rules do not apply to Period Modified, only to Restored or Original

[bobdo]

Thanks Kevin,
I'll get this straightened out in my head some day. That makes sense to me now.
I guess this snow is making me a bit crazy. That's my excuse & I'm stickin' to it.
Thanks again, Bob

[Magic]

This whole post has been misunderstood as the question asked was about Period correct motorcycles...which is definately different then Period Modified as I see it. An original condition motorcycle can be accessorized and period correct would be the term for such a motorcycle dressed up with trim. That motorcycle can enter the Period Modified (Class) for a chance at an award as well as the Bobbers, Choppers, Customized motorcycles. As close as they sound and overlap there is a difference. If I'm mistaken say so but that's how I see people are getting it mixed up. Merlin in Pa.

[T. Cotten]

Methinks what is getting mixed up is door prizes and beauty contests with legitimate AMCA protocol judging.

...Cotten

[bobdo]

I apologize for adding to the confusion.
When the Period Modified judging was added I was grateful. I found that a 100 point restoration of my bike was not only unobtainable, but I really wanted to stray from correct on a few points. This allowed me to participate to some degree. If I understand the tone in Cotton's statement, I guess some feel the club is diluting its status a bit. If the Period Modified judging were to stop, it wouldn't matter much to me. I can understand the people who have the means to restore these bikes accurately wanting to maintain the clubs status at the top & not want to appear like a lesser meet.
I guess its up to our officers to determine what the founding fathers felt was legitimate.
Bob #3756

[RichO]

The reason that Kevin and I pushed for the period modified class at Eutis some years back was to save many machines that had been modified through the years with the removing of some stock parts or the adding of homebuilt or aftermarket parts. Many had aquired many years of patinia. We felt and still do that they were being restored and all their history lost to future generations because someone wanted another stock and looking like a new machine. There are tons of like factory machines restored to way better than new condition. Many historical machines that were raced, or ridden hard and kept running, ugly repairs etc. or neat items added should also be saved like original paint machines to show their history. More machines left the dealerships with Flanders bars, Bates seats and footpegs, different exhaust, and either Cominsky, Chicago, Beck, Superior, Buco, and many more aftermarket parts attached. Our Club know it must represent all faucets of the motorcycle history of this and other countries machines. It also let others enjoy machines that maybe are getting harder either in availability of parts or cost to restore to 100% original condition. there's room for everybody and every type of antique motorcycle. Let us hope thos will continue. Rich Ostrander

[rousseau]

Of all my awards and trophys,this is the one that I am most proud of. And now I learn It's only a door prize.

[RichO]

Actually it's was the best of all the period modified motorcycles. You don't get 1st, 2nd, or 3rd for being the best stock machine in Class 1,2,3,4,5,6, or 7 do you! Probally didn't didn't get there on a trailer either or at least I hope not.

[Chuck#1848]

Of all my awards and trophys,this is the one that I am most proud of. And now I learn It's only a door prize.

Hey Rousseau,

how about a picture of the bike that got you the award

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Forget the 'Purists' and their Concors' De Ignorance Champain Drinking, Fish Egg Eating Meets.

The 'Period Modified' class exists for us motorcycle 'Enthusiats' to recognize the 'Craftmanship' of our fellow motorcycle builders and beer drinkers. Congrats rousseau!

Hrdly
George Moesch
AMCA # 3232