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Rex
01-13-2007, 10:42 PM
My new set of 45 valve springs are 3/32" longer than specified.
Close enough?

Paps
01-14-2007, 09:27 AM
How many active and non active coils are there on them ? The same as stock ? Is the wire gauge the same as stock ? Do you have access to a spring conpression tester ? Paps

swall
01-14-2007, 10:46 AM
Springs are frequently made with extra material so that when the spring takes a set, it will still have the desired spring rate. Frequently, springs are set at manufacture by compressing them to solid. Other times, the normal assembly and operational stresses are allowed to "set" the springs. I would check out the things Paps mentioned and if A-OK, I would not worry about the 3/32" difference in free length. You could also try compressing the springs to solid and then re-measuring free length to see if it changes.

Rex
01-15-2007, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by Paps
How many active and non active coils are there on them ? The same as stock ? Is the wire gauge the same as stock ? Do you have access to a spring conpression tester ? Paps

Paps-

1. Don't know an active coil from an inactive coil. The coils are evenly spaced, none touching except at the end where they're ground flat.

2. Don't have any springs known to be stock for comparison. The springs I took out were of up to 1/4" different in length.

3. My wire diameter is .148 to .150.

4. I don't have a spring compression tester, but motor builder #3 does, and I'll have him get me the numbers.

I've got spring charts in the Palmer restoration book and Kick-Start Catalog, but they don't go into any detail beyond length and compression info. These charts give me a single measurement number instead of a range of acceptability, and I don't have the experience to determine if the part is close enough to work. That's why I rely on you guys.

You've gotten me this far, and we're soooo close to done.

Rex

Paps
01-15-2007, 09:04 PM
The inactive [2] are at the two ends. I should not have asked how many inactive. Typed to fast I guess. The active are the ones between the end coils. Each coil make one full 360 degree from the first 360 degree point where the inactive coil ends. I will measure out a set of nos oem springs for you in the morning. I will get you the gauge and length and post my findings afterward. I don't recall the number of active coils for an oem set, off the top of my head, so I will count them also. We'll see just how far off they are with each other. 1/4" is definately to much, if short. I am still learning more indepth spring properties from one of the members on here who has helped me out considerably. My other questions were geared towards finding the source of the springs you bought, whether they be oem or aftermarket. Not wanting to start a discussion on aftermarket parts, I chose my reply the way I posted it. I might add...there are many quality aftermarket spring manufactures out there. The data from your spring coil wire diameter and the amount of active coils can be compared to oem springs. If alike, collapsed length where the coils hit one another would not be a concern. On the other hand, to many active coils with an oem wire dia spec could cause a real problem even if factory tension specs were held. Bottom line is though, if your springs have factory oem wire diameters and the tension test are within factory specs, your new springs are good. The 3/32" extra length will mean nothing. Paps

Paps
01-16-2007, 09:39 PM
OK..........here is what I found. Measuring out this nos oem set, I got 2.545", 2.556", 2.570", and 2.586" on the lengths. That is .030" variances in the complete set. Active coils are 9 and coil wire diameters are .150". Paps

Rex
01-17-2007, 09:15 PM
Paps-

Thanks for the research. It looks like my wire size is right where it should be, but the lengths are:

1. 2.722 (+.128)
2. 2.700 (+.106)
3. 2.698 (+.104)
4. 2.694 (+.100)

Specified length in my book is 2 19/32" (2.594).

I've seen stiffer K model springs offered for installation in W motors if spacers are used. I'm thinking if the valves don't take offense at those springs, mine shouldn't bother them. But it's also possible that those who build them like that don't mind a broken valve in a setting where support crews and facilities are a short push away.
I'll be out out on the open road.

Rex
01-17-2007, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by swall
Springs are frequently made with extra material so that when the spring takes a set, it will still have the desired spring rate. Frequently, springs are set at manufacture by compressing them to solid. Other times, the normal assembly and operational stresses are allowed to "set" the springs. I would check out the things Paps mentioned and if A-OK, I would not worry about the 3/32" difference in free length. You could also try compressing the springs to solid and then re-measuring free length to see if it changes.
swall-

Thanks for the insight. All the top end pieces are at motor builder #3 today. I've asked him to test the springs for me, and since I intend to disassemble and check everything when I get it back, I'll try the solid compression test you suggested.

Paps
01-18-2007, 06:46 AM
Wow !! This complete set of nos oem are all undersize in length ! Not by much but still under printed specs. The weather is cold here now. Had them stored in about a 50 degree area. Maybe the temperature has shrunk them down a bit ?? Since your wire size is right on, I suspect Swall nailed the answer to your concerns. Bet he is correct too. I can't wait to hear your next update on the tension tests. Paps